Reloading EverythingInline FabricationRotoMetals2Lee Precision
Load DataMidSouth Shooters SupplyRepackboxWideners
Titan Reloading

Thread: "Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

  1. #2841
    Boolit Buddy
    .30/30 Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    North East Utah
    Posts
    315
    I am a fair weather guy. In the summer I shoot in the cool part of the day and in the winter I shoot in the warmer part of the day providing that is about freezing or above. I am always looking for a better lube. I have been using 6661 for several months in rifle and pistol. This is the best lube that I have used. I am happy with the 6661 until Gear reappears or someone else comes up with something better.

  2. #2842
    Banned

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    soda springs Id.
    Posts
    28,088
    grump you have to remember heat and cold is the quest.
    666+1 in mild temps on down is a great lube, b.a.c. [with lanolin] and lyman's moly both have a wide swing to them too.

    it's the outlying conditions that will kill you [first 'cold' shot or 95+f day's]
    if I lived where it was hot constantly [60-f plus all the time] something like felix lube plus 5% carnuba or lars's carnuba red with 30% bees-wax and 10% alox added would work very well.
    heck 666+1 and 5% carnuba should even do the trick where your at.

    this thread is because we can make one end or the other work quite easily it's both ends [using only ONE non manipulated lube] that is the issue.

  3. #2843
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Southern Utah Desert
    Posts
    485
    Well, our higher temperatures are on their way out.

    Are their any other solid cold-weather lubes or a lube that needs to be tested above 100°F for lube purge flyers and other odd/unacceptable behaviors?

    Is there some testing being done or completed to report?

  4. #2844
    Banned

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    soda springs Id.
    Posts
    28,088
    I know some testing of the 666 is still ongoing.
    I'm stuck on my moly complex with atf which has done what I need done.
    as soon as my homo-lube/C-red handgun mix is gone, it's back to my simple lube with alox.
    I'm mixing up another couple of big batches of moly complex and staying with it for my rifles as I have made it to 2400 fps without issue, it does what I need as hot and as cold as I see here.

  5. #2845
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Fargo ND
    Posts
    7,075
    Wow, talk about your epic quests!

    I've been kinda "chewing" my way through this a few pages a day. Trying to not skip, understand the complex relationships.

    First off a BIG Hat's off and thank you to all who have slogged through this quest. Time, materials, rounds expended are never easy to come by.

    I suspect you'll end up as Hero's (in cast boolit land if no where else) for what you have given us.

    I hope over time to see more range reports trickle in. Variants tried, formulations and processes tweaked.

    The only thing I can actually add to this monster is a pretty minor point.
    The Vasoline name keeps cropping up throughout this thread.

    Well one day I was looking for our tub, couldn't find it, asked my wife to bring us home a new one.
    That night instead of a tub of vasoline she brings me home a printed sheet of how to DIY.

    I used equal portions of Beeswax, Olive Oil (Want to try Canola next) and Coconut oil.

    Easy to make it stiffer (more beeswax) or thinner (more olive oil)

    It makes a great hand lotion. With a bit more beeswax, and some flavor it makes a good chapstick.
    I've been using it for some 5 months now on my guns and have seen no adverse reactions to steel, brass. No corrosion, doesn't seem to get a gooey surface with age, etc.

    I have not tried it straight up as a bullet lube, I don't think it will do well in Texas heat. It might however take the cold well.
    Just something for gear to consider as he's grinding his way into making Vaseline from scratch more like the old stuff.

    Thanks again, and carry on please!

  6. #2846
    Boolit Grand Master leftiye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sagebrush flats, Utah
    Posts
    5,543
    Sorry to be a wet blanket, but real Vaseline (petroleum jelly) is a product of the cracking process at refineries. The stuff you buy in stores is no longer the real thing. It seems to have in the old days condensed on oil rigs, and the workers found it aided healing to rub it on their skin (how it became noticed). It has a quality of going into the skin and softening it.
    We need somebody/something to keep the government (cops and bureaucrats too) HONEST (by non government oversight).

    Every "freedom" (latitude) given to government is a loophole in the rule of law. Every loophole in the rule of law is another hole in our freedom. When they even obey the law that is. Too often government seems to feel itself above the law.

    We forgot to take out the trash in 2012, but 2016 was a charm! YESSS!

  7. #2847
    Banned

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    soda springs Id.
    Posts
    28,088
    it formed in the oil/gas wells naturally and had to be cleaned [called swabbing] out, or when refined it was a leftover mix of wax and solventized hydro-carbon that was cleaned up enough to be used.

    the problem now days is that with hydro-cracking they are eeking out that last little bit of everything from oil, and Vaseline lost it's quality's.
    what we get now is actually a manufactured paraffin wax and solventized mineral oil mix that mimics the old yellow Vaseline.
    the wells that produced high volumes of paraffin used to be sold at half price because of the inconvenience of the wax.
    it's a little higher valued product now because it can be mixed with the sweet stuff and used at a maximum amount so that the waxes can be produced and pulled off as a separate product.

  8. #2848
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,625
    Is it possible to get the old yellow stuff still through maybe some industrial channel?

  9. #2849
    Banned

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    soda springs Id.
    Posts
    28,088
    if there is I ain't found it.
    trust me we looked for it or a substitute, that's how we ended up trying the DR Tranny stuff, it's basic make-up is fairly close to the old Vaseline.
    I recently found a couple of jars of thick yellow 'petroleum jelly' that feels close but a little too plastic. [shrug]

  10. #2850
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    760
    I know I'm new to all of this, but wouldn't a good coating of liquid Alox and a sprinkling of motor mica fit all boolits in all temps? I am assuming that gas checks are being used.

  11. #2851
    Boolit Grand Master
    btroj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Nebraska's oldest city
    Posts
    12,418
    Try it and see?
    I don't think you will find it meets the criteria set forth in the beginning of this quest. Can it shoot a couple good 10 shot groups, no cleaning, one day. Leave the rifle for a week or so, uncleaned and repeat.

    Try this at 90 degrees and at 20 degrees. See what happens. LLA and mica aren't going to make the cut.
    You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.

  12. #2852
    Boolit Master

    alamogunr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    4,509
    Quote Originally Posted by leftiye View Post
    Sorry to be a wet blanket, but real Vaseline (petroleum jelly) is a product of the cracking process at refineries. The stuff you buy in stores is no longer the real thing. It seems to have in the old days condensed on oil rigs, and the workers found it aided healing to rub it on their skin (how it became noticed). It has a quality of going into the skin and softening it.
    A couple of years ago I found a pint jar of Vaseline under a bathroom sink. It had been there since our younger son was a baby. He is now 43. It has been in the shop ever since. Is this old enough to be "real" Vaseline?
    John
    W.TN

  13. #2853
    Boolit Grand Master
    btroj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Nebraska's oldest city
    Posts
    12,418
    That should be plenty old.
    You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.

  14. #2854
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Denial
    Posts
    4,212
    Vintage cars, vintage records, vintage stamps, coins, baseball cards. . .

    It would seem we now have people collecting vintage VASELINE. I love this forum! It's rare to find a place that I'm not the weird one. . .

    It would seem that victory is nigh?
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  15. #2855
    Banned


    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    29˚68’27”N, 99˚12’07”W
    Posts
    14,662
    Quote Originally Posted by psweigle View Post
    I know I'm new to all of this, but wouldn't a good coating of liquid Alox and a sprinkling of motor mica fit all boolits in all temps? I am assuming that gas checks are being used.
    Might fill some of the criteria for extremely low velocity, yes, but won't come close to filling all of the needs outlined in the original post of this quest, which is still the valid data set I'm going off of. There was a thread prior to this one where a consortium of members from all over the world shooting all sorts of guns and in about as extreme a climate range as you could imagine established the basic set of requirements for what we termed "Extreme Bullet Lube".

    Gear

  16. #2856
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Southern Utah Desert
    Posts
    485
    Monthly whining for an update. Again. I really am holding back. FIRST frost on the rooftops here yesterday morning. Weather says the town 3 miles east and 400? feet lower in altitude had a low of only 41°F last night. And I thought we were only 5 degrees colder...

    So NO, I can't help the cold weather testing. Someone's gotta live where snow is rare, ya know. Might as well be me.

  17. #2857
    Boolit Buddy
    7Acres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    426
    Quote Originally Posted by Grump View Post
    Monthly whining for an update. Again. I really am holding back. FIRST frost on the rooftops here yesterday morning. Weather says the town 3 miles east and 400? feet lower in altitude had a low of only 41°F last night. And I thought we were only 5 degrees colder...

    So NO, I can't help the cold weather testing. Someone's gotta live where snow is rare, ya know. Might as well be me.
    Wanted to post here so I too can hear how the cold weather testing goes. There's an insane wealth of lube IQ on this post.

  18. #2858
    Boolit Buddy

    MostlyOnThePaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Adrian, MI
    Posts
    473
    Insane is a GREAT description

  19. #2859
    Boolit Master Eutectic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mountains
    Posts
    607

    Forget the snow! Let's get the 'mercury' below...

    We have had four mornings in a row where temps read minus. Almost made double digit lows. I figured it was time to test lube to the "extreme"!
    It is a slow process. I shoot a 4 shot group. Each shot is 15 minutes apart, so it takes an hour to do. Multiple test 'mules' are the best to get the most data. Each 'mule' and its 'load' should be capable of minute of angle accuracy in summer say at 80°F. Many have asked why I don't shoot a 'normal' group. Mainly, because you can 'warm' up a cold gun to shoot a bad lube for the cold... My procedure then, is basically 4 cold starts. What your gun and ammo will see in a hunting situation when the 'big' one appears!
    My guns and their test ammo are fully saturated. This means I set them outside to 'chill out'! Say it is -7°F.... I start with a gun and ammo at minus 7°F and keep them there during the whole test. My criteria for a passing grade is about two minute of angle, but I'll give it a little leeway if I see certain patterns develop. When a lube fails it may be off the target!

    I told Geargnasher I would test his SL68 lube and did (along with StarMetal's hi-soap lube we try to duplicate) at minus 7°F. They both passed and I think better than the groups show too. These hi-soap lubes seem to need more dwell time to normalize... (Maybe 30 minutes between shots) I'm just learning this and will apply it next test. We that have cooked these hi-soap lubes know how long they seem to hold the heat after you have removed them from it! Almost an insulative quality of sorts which could be a good trait!
    These test results are here post #130 :http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...8-recipe/page7

    I also played with 666-1. I just love 666-1! I hardly expected this simple 'old' NRA formula with 5% Ivory added would be complex enough for the -8°F test I put it on.... But 666-1 has continued to surprise me. I had to make a second batch even.!!!The first mule shot a 3/4" group at 85 yards! Almost as good as it does 85° warmer. So then I tried it in my old Savage Model 23 .32-20... I call it my bench gun! Not some wimp load with 3grs of powder on board either! A 99gr hollow point that chronographs 1928fps. It likes to think it can shoot 1/2 moa.
    Well.... it almost did.... The third shot was out. I usually do cold tests with visually OK boolits. I think I'll use match grade in this gun/load! (I don't think it was lube purge but below zero I'm still guessing) Target is attached...

    Be somethin' if 666-1 with a little tweak became "Extreme"!
    I shot some this morning at -4°F. It was tweaked with 2% Jojoba oil (at the recommendation of Mr. 666-1)

    Mighty, mighty, GOOD! I'll report back when I test double digits... even -25°F if I can get it!

    Eutectic
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0447at minus 8.JPG 
Views:	276 
Size:	16.1 KB 
ID:	122145

  20. #2860
    Banned


    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    29˚68’27”N, 99˚12’07”W
    Posts
    14,662
    Was the first shot the cleaner hole? That's some great shooting and a good working system, even with the flyer. I'm hesitant to think it's lube because of being third and having similar hole appearance to the others, probably just a "ragged edge" anomaly, they do show up at high speeds occasionally because we're still humans. I assume you normalized between shots?

    Gear

Page 143 of 153 FirstFirst ... 4393133134135136137138139140141142143144145146147148149150151152 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check