"Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

[geargnasher]

I already made some of that, back when I thought it was just Microwax and Mag1 grease. You know, the stuff that defines "goosechit".

Gear

[jmort]

What advantage/disadvantage would grease with "overbased calcium sulfonate thickener" have compared to lithium based grease?

[bruce381]

in a normal grease lubed bearing for example the CA has a higher drop point and a better resistance to "bleed" with better rust protection and some AW effect.

[geargnasher]

"Over-based" means the grease is slightly alkaline and can contend with acidic contaminants, this being particularly important with crankcase oil that must contend with bearing-eating combustion acid contamination. I'm not sure what acidic contaminants a grease might normally have to deal with, but it's there if you need it I guess. Might be a boon to a boolit lube, lots of combustion acids being developed there.

I've only used one calcium sulfonate-thickened grease in boolit lube and wasn't impressed. That was Mobil Centaur Moly grease. It was either the thickener, the graphite, or the moly disulphide in it but something left a heck of a residue in my bores.

Gear

[jmort]

There is no graphite or moly disulphide. Looked interesting. Trying to put a non-carcinogenic lube together that will take some high desert temperature. Thanks to bruce381 and special thanks to geargnasher. Amazing how much knowledge is in this thread. Still amazed that you know the approximate ester content of my Redline 2 cycle oil.

[btroj]

Made some lube similar to Gear's today. It has an amazing long phase where it isn't a liquid, isn't a solid. I call this the snot phase, it has that look and consistency.

I think it feels very similar to the microwax TnT I made last year. That lube did pretty well for me. This one differs mostly in the oils used. No ester oil in this one. Just mineral oil, GL1 gear oil, castor oil, microwax, and some Vaseline, along with Ivory soap. I added a small amount of castor wax too, it will bump up the melt point if anything and add a small amount of lubrication. Being a wax it isn't going to get blown down the bore under pressure.

[AggiePharmD]

Please forgive me if I missed this within these 142 pages but has anyone considered Lanolin? Melting point of 44C, flash point of 23 and auto ignition point of 445C. NAPA ratings of zero for reactivity and flammability. Chemical mixture of cholesterol esters and higher fatty acid esters. Derived from wool as a byproduct in its preparation. Maybe it would give a "fibrous" vehicle to hold your other components?

[btroj]

Oh, we have used lanolin up the wazoo.

It tends to make a lube sticky and fast. Doesn't always let the lube fling off the bullet well at lower temps.

I prefer to keep lanolin out or use it in minor amounts, less than 5 percent for certain, preferably closer to 1 percent.

Lanolin is awesome though when a lube is a bit dry and won't stick well to the bullets, very little is needed to give the adhesion required.

[AggiePharmD]

Good enough for me. I went cross - eyed for a minute reading all that. Plus I'm not the only one around here that understands the great properties of Lanolin as it relates to skin protection so I figured it had been hashed out as it would be a known substance.

[geargnasher]

Lanolin, as I understand it, is chemically a wax and we DO know that it makes an excellent extreme-pressure additive in lube, but it does have its downsides when the temps get low. So does Carnauba wax unless it is kept dissolved by ester oils or similar.

Gear

[Grump]

Update, gentlemen???

I trust that there is at least one that has passed the cold weather testing and now we just gotta see how it/they handles/handle the heat????

[Grump]

Hey, could any of us with experience and maybe application of a thermometer to the stuff share some melt point data over in this thread?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Various-Lubes

I guess an old version of MML (thanks, BTroj) could get runny in someone's version of "heat", but it's the latest versions I am curious about...

Thanks.

[runfiverun]

grump.
additions [and of course subtractions] to almost any lube will alter it's melt temperature.
the amount you add/subtract can also drastically alter a lubes characteristics of melt point, and flow point.

the use of DR tranny stuff was a slight improvement of the lubes flow point and a way to get a consistent middle modifier. [in place of Vaseline]
it also added a strength and consistency Vaseline doesn't have anymore.
remember a lubes components have a melt point and a pressure flow point, the addition or make up of a component can change the characteristic's of a lubes flow point, which can be quite independent of it's full melt point...

[Grump]

grump.
additions [and of course subtractions] to almost any lube will alter it's melt temperature.
[snip]
the use of DR tranny stuff was a slight improvement of the lubes flow point and a way to get a consistent middle modifier. [in place of Vaseline]

You mean the Assembly Goo stuff? As I recall, that was in the SL series, which flopped in rifles above 30,000 PSI/CUP...???

EVEN THOUGH it is most UNlikely that I would ever really need the first-round cold bore no-flyer performance in rifles *at present*, I remain interested in something that performs as the Extreme Thread demands in the cold, AND won't drip into my powder when a box of ammo or a magazine is left in the sun at 110°F ambient for more than five minutes, AND won't give purge flyers or other accuracy killers in any temp between 90° and 110°F in both .224 and .30 bores for at least 20 shots.

I just might start practicing at 100-300 yards with the precision rifle shooting using lead, for positional skillz, to save the 'spensive and often-unavailable jacketed bullets...

So did everyone just run off with the Satan's Lube and declare it good enough? As far as I can tell, it's good up to 90°???

Inquiring minds want to know.

[357maximum]

Grump

I cannot answer for the rest of the folks but I have personally settled on Satan's Lube for revolvers/standard rifles and MML with 5% ivory for Long barrelled or HV rifles as well as short barreled rifles (aka single shot specialty high fallutin pistols), both satisfy my needs and will take 95degree plus heat with no major issues....both are real good in the cold also with no major 1st shot flier syndrome.

.The Satans lube has shown some minor heat inspired vertical accuracy issues with not providing enough friction for function/burn with the short 14-15 inch barreled super high intensity "pistols" ... a bit less vasoline for that particular purpose has been shown to be needed. A 6part beeswax/6part paraffin/5 part vasoline/1 part ivory mix may be the "holy grail" for all my applications, but I am not quite ready to say that aloud just yet....need more testing and a possible further reduction in the vasoline.....not 100% sure at this point in time.


If I had to choose at this point 1 lube for everything(standard revolver/pistol/high intensity pistol/rifle/HV rifle) it would be hands down MML with 5% ivory added in up front.

Still playing with Satan's lube variants trying to get rid of the spendy microwax of MML however....I think I am there with the 6beeswax-6paraffin-5vaseline+1ivory version, but it may need to be a 6+6+4.5+1 version in the end to meet all my needs. The short barrelled high velocit/ high intensity "pistols" are the final fly in the ointment I need to get under control 100% with the Satans Tweaked Formulas and then I need to make sure I did not screw up the performance in the other areas before I say for sure 100% and all defininate like.


I hope all that made sense to somone who is not neck deep in it.

[Wingnutt]

Mike,Like Ben's Red, do you think some JPW would toughen up the Satan's lube instead of just dropping the ratio of the petrolium jelly?

[357maximum]

JPW is mostly paraffin in a carrier.....so it would be basically be like adding more paraffin to the mix. Experience has shown me to watch the paraffin % closely so.......I am playing with subtraction before any playing with addition....experience has shown me subtraction is normally the better route.

[Eutectic]

Grump

I cannot answer for the rest of the folks but I have personally settled on Satan's Lube for revolvers/standard rifles and MML with 5% ivory for Long barrelled or HV rifles as well as short barreled rifles (aka single shot specialty high fallutin pistols), both satisfy my needs and will take 95degree plus heat with no major issues....both are real good in the cold also with no major 1st shot flier syndrome.

.The Satans lube has shown some minor heat inspired vertical accuracy issues with not providing enough friction for function/burn with the short 14-15 inch barreled super high intensity "pistols" ... a bit less vasoline for that particular purpose has been shown to be needed. A 6part beeswax/6part paraffin/5 part vasoline/1 part ivory mix may be the "holy grail" for all my applications, but I am not quite ready to say that aloud just yet....need more testing and a possible further reduction in the vasoline.....not 100% sure at this point in time.


If I had to choose at this point 1 lube for everything(standard revolver/pistol/high intensity pistol/rifle/HV rifle) it would be hands down MML with 5% ivory added in up front.

Still playing with Satan's lube variants trying to get rid of the spendy microwax of MML however....I think I am there with the 6beeswax-6paraffin-5vaseline+1ivory version, but it may need to be a 6+6+4.5+1 version in the end to meet all my needs. The short barrelled high velocit/ high intensity "pistols" are the final fly in the ointment I need to get under control 100% with the Satans Tweaked Formulas and then I need to make sure I did not screw up the performance in the other areas before I say for sure 100% and all defininate like.


I hope all that made sense to somone who is not neck deep in it.

Mike, you really hit onto something with "Mikey's Ivory" (what I call your 6,6,6,&1) !!! I have almost used up my 'batch' and will make more. It is a repeatable 'cold start' lube... By this I mean if a gun/load combination shoots the first one from a cold, dirty barrel 1" high..... it will do it each and every time you do it right on 1" high. That's good enough for sparrow head shots! Modify if you want.... but I think you and I are alike about hot! It's hot past 85° for me and I don't even care to shoot in 100°!! I will put my loaded rounds in an ice chest if there's a chance they'll go over a 100°!
I haven't tried it in sub zero yet which is a more important attribute for me.. than taking a hot dash board..Something that could change if you 'harden' it up as you know.... I think 6,6,6, 1 will hang in there below zero.... It's one of my gut feelings! Maybe I have a couple of formulations that are 'tougher' for the hardest service; but who knows?? I've shot your 6,6,6, 1 in a T/C .22 Hornet barrel recently that's 1 in 12" twist at 2925fps! And it shoots about as good as jacketed! And this with COWW air cooled! There's a secret here and it's a boolit with very low sectional density and a powder type/charge that doesn't spike a time pressure curve sharp 'spike'!

That's 175,000 RPM!! But don't tell anybody... and hang in there!!

Eutectic

[357maximum]

Thank You.....glad to know someone appreciates my blatherings on.

I can "fix" the tiny issue with the short barrelled high intensity handheld rifles with a powder tweak too....in fact that may prove be a better method of attack especially seeing as I have ALOT of 666+1.


175,000 RPM....blasphemy you cannot do that with a castboolit.

[Grump]

Come on guys, it's been a month since .357 Max's post and longer since anything really reporting progress.

Did someone just change the original temp performance specs for the Quest, declare victory and everybody go home?