"Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

[geargnasher]

Yeh, I don't know what I was thinking, (probly looking for a carrier with minimum left behind on the bore) Graphite fixed in paraffin would be as hard/dry as paraffin. So, 50/50 bowl wax and paraffin, then half and half again with graphite?

That formula might have some merit but will end up in puddles at the bottom of your cartridge boxes if you come to Texas in a couple of months.

Gear

[Queenks]

Ive been using the alox 45% johnsons wax 45% oderless mineral spirits 10% formula and it works great so far

[geargnasher]

Just a little update on the lube goings-on, only the interesting parts.

First, I did a castor/soap/microwax grease that firmed up but is OMG slippery, weeps a little oil on paper (though not nearly as bad as the sodium/castor grease) and smokes a little too much for my liking. It shoots ok, but seems to need a warm-up from a clean barrel and leaves a little wet sludge behind. Boolit holes start clean and get very black as the barrel warms. (.45 Colt).

I've still been playing with a microwax version of TnT which is proving to be pretty good in pistols, again not working much with rifles right now as I'm waiting on a mould for the XCB and am saving rifle powder/primers for that. One thing I'm getting is just a wee bit of lead smears in a place or two, definitely not as good of a lube as some of the stuff I've tried with this exact load and gun.

The Micro TnT taught me something, though: It's Microwax that makes Starmetal lube do what it does. Well, part of it, anyway. Microwax gives the high film strength and feathery quality, and also works very well with soap to make a smooth lube. Soooooo, back to Starmetal lube. I studied the feel of it a bit some more and started playing again. This time I was trying to pinpoint the "magic" wax he uses, and had some ideas. I made four wax samples: One with 180 microwax softened with brightstock, one softened with GL-1 paraffin gear oil, one with Gulf wax softened with brightstock, and finally one with Gulf wax softened with the paraffin gear oil. The trick is to use microwax and paraffin oils, which is what makes up the petroleum in Starmetal lube.

We learned that the paraffins make lube "dry" yet allow it to be made soft. We learned that microwaxes give flexibility and glide, and also reduce the cold-starting problems and barrel gunk. So I got to thinking more about what's in Starmetal lube, and essentially it's a flexible microwax with some (probably) heavy paraffin oils to soften it, a soft microwax (Vaseline) softened more with plain mineral oil from the pharmacy, Ivory soap to firm it up and maintain consistency, and a dash of castor bean oil to give it just enough lubrication to handle high velocity and keep the metal wash down. So I made some using a different tack: 180F microwax, some GL-1 paraffin gear oil (140 wt), a dash of mineral oil, a touch of generic Vaseline, about as much Ivory soap as wax, and a tiny bit of castor bean oil. It isn't perfect consistency-wise (needs a little more GL-1, less Vaseline, and a little more soap), but I shot a bunch of it today and it's doing the trick quite nicely.

I've been shooting a lot of Mike's Satan's Lube lately and it does very well.....Except it needs about 2% castor bean oil to make it work better at high velocity. My latest iteration, let's call it SL-67, is doing just what I imagined a dash of castor would do with Satan's lube, but with a lot less smoke.

Stay tuned.

Gear

[btroj]

My understanding is that Vaseline is essentially microwax and mineral oil is a mixture. The "old" vasleine can be replicated, somewhat, by mixing the right combination of microwax and mineral oils. I think that is essentially what you did Gear, isnt it?

I want to do some testing, once I have a better test subject and mould, with the castor wax. I want to see if it lubricates even near as well and castor oil but without and risk of bleed out.

Maybe a small batch of Mike's Satan lube with 5% castor wax needs to be made.

[geargnasher]

I haven't messed with the castor wax much yet, but it will likely be a good ingredient.

My early research on Vaseline lead me astray with information suggesting it was all paraffinic. Bruce381 sent a sample of some soft microwax he had and he described it as being basically Vaseline, but I didn't catch on at the time. Yes, Vaseline is basically rod wax (or what they call "tank wax" today) and is a stew of microcrystalline waxes that precipitate out of the crude "solution" when the effects of gravity are reduced. That's what got me going on the microwax base here. Learning that adding paraffin oil, and not napthenic or aliphatic oil to soften the wax, gets that feathery feel and dry bore that keeps our shooting so consistent. The SL series had been based mostly on paraffin wax and paraffin oils, and I feel not that that was the main failure point of the lubes. Paraffin wax doesn't leave the bore as consistent shot-to-shot as microwax does, and aliphatic oils leave too much "slippery" behind. Or something like that. Anyway, it's night and day between shooting SL-62 and SL-67, I think because of the microwax. I've played enough with these two kinds of wax and oil that the trend points toward microwax/paraffin oil as the solution to the fliers and wet bore syndrome. Microwax and soap seem to get along better than paraffin wax and soap, too, at least in the gun (a good "feeling" lube can be made with them, like 'flubber' [SL-62], but the way the flubber shoots vs 6661 or SL-67 is quite different).

Microwax softened with paraffin oil, heavily soaped, and a dash of castor oil. I'm gonna laugh my butt off if it's been that simple all along. BTW, SL-67, like most of the stuff I've been making lately, meets the "extreme weather" requirements quite well. It's about like banana pudding at 180F, and doesn't look like it's going to melt/run/bleed in the Texas heat.

Gear

[btroj]

Sounds good to me. I may need to fire up the hotplate and make some lube.

Like you I am waiting for a new mould for more serious testing.

How clean is the gun after shooting SL-67 in your 45 Colt? Cleanliness was a hallmark of TnT and I liked that attribute. Is the 45 Colt a revolver or your rifle?

[geargnasher]

Revolver, it's the "go-to" stainless New Vaquero, 7.5", that I use for initial testing. It tells me exactly what I need to know about CORE, oil film in the bore (or all over the gun), leading, first-shot flyers, and lube gum. If it passes in that gun, the lube gets put through rifles next to test basically the same thing. The SL-67 is at least as clean as TnT and doesn't grease-up the cylinder or cylinder face much at all. It's almost as dry as SL-62 (Gulf, AG, soap) but does a better job of keeping the bore condition consistent. So far I give it a firm pass on all the essential desired qualities, particularly with clean gun, low smoke, and CORE. If it's as good as Starmetal lube it won't have any trouble at all in hot or cold temps, even though the ingredients have terrible VIs. I'm thinking now that the whole trick to a successful wide-temperature-range lube isn't the VI, it's keeping the friction consistent regardless of being solid, soft, or melted.

Gear

[btroj]

Sounds pretty good to me.

A consistent friction is the entire key, isn't it? Lube purging isn't an issue of friction stays the same even of pushing oils out in front of the bullet.

Satan plus 2 percent castor oil. So simple.

[geargnasher]

One thing I mentioned in PM, but forgot to mention here, was how the NEI lube worked. I only shot it in my NV, but it did pretty well. It seemed to grease-up the outside of the revolver and smoke a bit more than SL-67, but not by much and it was very accurate. If that's all I could get I would be pretty happy, not sure why that stuff didn't catch on better back when.

The one lube I haven't tested yet is that stick of old, black Ideal lube that was so kindly gifted to me a few weeks ago by a member here, along with the NEI sodium lube. It smells exactly like old crayons, I mean theold ones from the 50's (yes, I have some). Like coffee and peanut butter, the smell is very distinct. I'll have to try it at some point, but it seems almost like sacrilege to rob even a sample from that brand-new stick, it ought to be in a museum somewhere.

Gear

[btroj]

Guys, he says the NEI was better than TnT and that means something. That is the best handgun lube I have used yet. It is a favorite of Gear too so when he says better than that it means something.

[geargnasher]

True, I really like the TnT and have a sizer full of it for my handguns and several pounds of it kneaded and rolled into aluminum-foil-wrapped sausages in reserve. As I've said before, it is essentially the fulfullment of this quest as far as I'm concerned for handguns, but as the search for rifle lube continues I'm finding things that may be better for pistols, too. Really, Starmetal Lube is the fulfillment of this quest, but duplicating it has proven near impossible before, too many ingredients unknown even to him, and one he isn't sharing but is basically REAL, brown Vaseline that he makes from scratch with microwax and laxative-grade mineral oil. I don't know what it is about that stuff, but ever since I first tried the sample he sent me a couple of years ago, I have been absolutely sold on it. The only problem is I have about an ounce of it left and that isn't going to last me very long if I keep shooting it. In fact, the only reason I shoot it at all is to get a baseline to compare other things to. Even Felix lube isn't as good starting out fresh in a rifle, it needs some time to season the bore and if you clean it too much, accuracy goes to hell for a bit.

But, I think, maybe, hopefully, we got this little nut cracked now. I still can't believe that 1920s technology is going to get it done, but it might just be so. Getting the microwax/paraffin oil/sodium soap thing straightened out might have solved our lube base problem once and for all.

Gear

[Grump]

So SL-62 was one of the last Assemblee Goo formulas, and SL-67 is Satan's Lube (that 6-6-6 plus something else) with a small amount of castor oil?

Sounds like our first workable rifle-grade Extreme Lube will have the most part of its performance from natural ingredients, and another part of its performance from older refined petroleum based stuff.

No synthetic lithium grease, no not-quite-lubricating ATF components, no synthetic oil(s), no viscosity modifiers...

Is SL-67 thoroughly tested in cold weather, now it looks like we are in the last gasp of winter in the cold regions?

[runfiverun]

hmm so the GEL [soap and mineral oil 1-3 mixed up] was pretty close, I still have some of the GEL and magma's micro-wax sitting in the shop.
I haven't shot it yet as I have been mucking about with the 9m mold I got from jt too much lately.

anyway.
a drip or 2 of castor oil might bring down it's final hardness.

and the process could be changed to polymerize the castor oil like in felix lube before the wax is added to the gel, only mixed with micro-wax instead of b-wax.
i'll have to see if I still have some of the original GEL stored away and see what I can do with that.
it would end up being about 15% soap though.

[geargnasher]

That would be close, mineral oil and Ivory makes a fine grease. I'm having better luck with straight-weight GL-1 paraffin mineral gear oil than with the laxative-grade white mineral oil, so you might think about starting from scratch. Magma lube with about an equal amount of soap, some GL-1 90wt, and a couple drops of castor bean oil would be very much in the ballpark here. There's so much soap in this lube that the minimal amount of castor present doesn't have to be fully polymerized, but I throw it in at the beginning and let it cook to the full melt point of the soap just to be sure. I've made the SL series with castor both ways, adding it first and last and it didn't make any difference. On the castor, I'm thinking only add enough to where you can just barely start to tell that it's there, no more. You can tell if it isn't there by rubbing the lube between your fingers until it's gone. The castor will still be there after the wax/soap/mineral oil rubs away. Two tablespoons per pound might be too much, but is in the Felix lube ballpark and without any other significant lubricants present I'd say it would be about right. It doesn't take much, the Gnome engines were running at 40-50 to one IIRC, so 2-3%.

The reason I'm hell-bent on such a high soap content (aside from my extremely favorable results with Starmetal lube) is the melt point. This SL-67 is approaching the minimum I'd like to see as far as how much heat it can take before it starts to melt. I'll fix that in the next batch by reducing the wax, taking out the Vaseline, and adding more mineral gear oil.

Gear

[leftiye]

There's old vaseline (petroleum jelly, petrolatum) to be had on eVil bAy. Would 1960s Vaseline or Military petroleum jelly grease be the right stuff (that you were talking about)? How close is the FlowMaster toilet bowl wax?

[btroj]

1960s era Vaseline would work. The military grade grease it is hard to say, not sure what else might be in that.
The toilet ring is close but I think they have so much junk in them anymore that who knows what they are.

[leftiye]

The Military stuff is technical grade petrolatum, and is bright yellow. I'd already bought some before I read your answer, but I'm stoked that it is the original CAS vaseline, not the USP stuff. Oh well another lube ingredient bought that may not be used. (actually, I'm purty sure it can be used, maybe just not quite as good)

Some places list cosmoline and petrolatum as being the same, you know. I saw a big tub of the wrapping tape grease that 357 Max mentioned, but it was like 80 dollars total. I don't need that much.

[btroj]

I think cosmoline is pretty much a low grade Vaseline. I think it would work pretty darn well actually.

[Grump]

What's the story on NEI Lube? Is it now Unobtanium like the StarMetal stuff?

Tried to look for it but the few clues I could find point to it no longer being made/sold or whatever, and being of unknown composition.

[runfiverun]

the maker died a few years ago.
his son in law runs the place now, I wouldn't order pre-made nuts/bolts from the guy.