gear baragel 24 needs to have high shear and a polar solvent like acetone to fully activate and gell.
Elementis has a eaiser "self activating" gellant but forgot name I thought I sent you some?
here it is
http://www.elementis-specialties.com/esweb/WebProducts.nsf/allbydocid/D9CBC4FDD65CD431852575F90060C0F3/$FILE/BARAGEL%C2%AE%203000.pdf
OMG, I didn't know this thread existed...and #2763 posts!!! My lube works great...yet I want to learn. This is going to take hours to get through...aye aye aye.
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You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.
More than a month since any update.
How's the cold-weather testing lately? Anything promising for that extreme of the performance we're after?
My impression is that, like last year, we have some things looking good for no first-round flyers in the cold, from both clean and fouled cold bores, AND which still shoot the first shot to the center of the group a few days later.
AFAIRecall, first-round accuracy with the rest of a 5-round group, both cold and warm barrels, both clean and fouled bores, is the performance we want at both temperature extremes as well as all temps in between.
The SL series was showing not too horrible vertical stringing in warmer weather but inquiries stopped because of the nasty deposits in rifle bores at higher-pressure loads.
The TnT, Thick and Tacky series, did that also have groups opening up too much in the heat?
Not in THIS thread, but whatever happened with the peanut butter based lube?
Anyway, I am STILL interested in what can be found that won't melt in the heat and has NO flyers, lube purging or other performance-limiting characteristics.
I just can't seem to give up on TnT. I simply love having a lube that won't melt or bleed oil in the summertime, even when ammo is out in the direct sunlight for a while.
After going over all the oils known to man again, this time trying to find one with a super-high boil point, I decided that it was tough to beat good ol' castor bean oil with a flash point of something over 600F. The ester oil in TnT had a bit too much polybutene for our wants, and the oil itself flashed at a fairly low temperature. My thinking was that if the flash point could be raised, even slightly, it might be enough to handle rifle pressures and not dump the stearate off in the bore.
So I made some sodium/castor oil grease tonight, and it didn't even smoke, even at at the full liquid point approaching 500F. Those of you who have been brave enough and trusting enough to follow some of us down the crazy path of making sodium grease from scratch can appreciate an oil that doesn't smoke like a house fire at the temperature of molten sodium stearate.
It will probably suck royally as a boolit lube, but what the heck.
Gear
M A Y B E not........ Let us know ASAP!Originally Posted by geargnasher
Eutectic
I made it a bit thin, so it's a little bit of a challenge to lube with, but I can make it work to at least test a few. I just got back from a go with the wear tester, looking good there. It also does well with the torch test until it's completely burned, then there's that gummy residue thing again. But, it takes a LOT of heat and time to harm it.
Hopefully some testing will commence Saturday, it's my last birthday this side of 40 and the first on a weekend in some time, so I'm by golly going to do what I want
Gear
I am very happy with TnT in my pistols.
Great results with the .357 mag, .44 mag, .270 max, .30 max and .270 ren.
Happy pre-birthday - Hope you have a great 39th birthday!Hopefully some testing will commence Saturday, it's my last birthday this side of 40 and the first on a weekend in some time, so I'm by golly going to do what I want
Gear
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Hi guys new here. I haven't read the entire thread but I plan to over the next 2 weeks I just love this kinda stuff. Anyways why I posted here and I hope I'm not out of order doing so. I use a wax on my knives that I make and use it for the handle and blade it has great long term rust capabilities and I see wax used in alot of lubes. The Stuff is called Renaissance wax. It's a micro crystalline wax polish. Its kinda pricey at 26 dollars per 2 oz. I would be willing to donate a can to a lube master tester if someone had the desire to try it out.
Gear, I am following this with great interest. I have used conventional lubes from Lyman. White Label, Rooster and others and I'd be hard pressed to explain how lubes so different accomplished the intended task. I am VERY new to this so please take this with a grain of salt.
Experiments I did with PP Boolits several years ago indicated that lubes that dried "hard" were more successful and stable than those that remained "soft". I cannot explain why but the results were pretty convincing at the time. After researching Anhydrous Graphite used in the 60's and testing with a Lube developed by Jim Conner (Black Magic) I feel that Graphite (and probably hBN as you've mentioned) provide the characteristics you listed in post #1. The carrier used in Black Magic is Xlox thinned with Mineral Spirits and as such it never really dries "hard" and is subject to mechanical damage. I shot 100 rounds this past weekend of a HP'd 311413 that weighed ~158gr ready to load, half lubed with Black Magic and half powder coated with HF White PC Powder /Graphite mixed 2/1. For a first experiment I was impressed. I did not weight sort the Boolits and still shot 1.5-2 MOA 10 shot groups using varget. What was most interesting was the fact that the ES and SD were half of those obtained with Black Magic for a given charge. They were very consistent. Next test will be a 4/1 mix using a faster powder like Rx7 or 5744.
I believe that using PC+Graphite or PC+hBN will provide the temperature stability, shot to shot consistency and lubricity and mechanical stability needed to meet the listed goals. I am new to the PC arena and lack experience with it but I believe others are trying this as well. I have only shot it in a 1-10 .308 and I'm hoping others will try it in different calibers and report their results.
TC, I believe you may be correct. Jim shared his early experiments and testing with BM lube and I consider it fine for his purposes (extremely low-velocity 'coon loads), but anything with a calcium-soap base starts gumming up the works sooner or later. PC reduces or eliminates the sloughing and gummy residue and keeps the bore condition more consistent shot-to-shot, which is key to the effectiveness of any lube, jacket, or coating.
PC + hBN, mica, graphite, even talc may be a good solution to the rifle "lube" problem, provided it doesn't bring any other evils into play.
Anything that leaves an oil residue in the bore opens up a can of worms regarding consistency of bore fouling encountered by the boolit, one reason why "dry" lubes, meaning waxy concoctions utilizing oils that aren't slick (paraffinic, mostly), tend to work the best because the effect after shooting is to leave very little evidence behind.
Lube, ultimately, is a friction equalizer and micro-sealant. It can be slippery or tacky, soft or firm, dry or wet, no matter as long as it behaves in a consistent manner.
Gear
One will have a more difficult time obtaining accuracy (that's rifle accuracy) with slippery and wet vs. your other mentioned attributes.
Add beeswax and 160F paraffin (the latter is less money than the former) to improve group consistency. Has anyone tried adding a glue stick (or portion thereof) to boolit lube?
MJ
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Paraffin and graphite?
We need somebody/something to keep the government (cops and bureaucrats too) HONEST (by non government oversight).
Every "freedom" (latitude) given to government is a loophole in the rule of law. Every loophole in the rule of law is another hole in our freedom. When they even obey the law that is. Too often government seems to feel itself above the law.
We forgot to take out the trash in 2012, but 2016 was a charm! YESSS!
Yet another interesting idea!!!! Gear, does the Xlox in BM contain the calcium?
Yes, Xlox is the source of the calcium.
Paraffin and graphite might get a bit dry if much graphite was added. I suppose adding a small amount of Vaseline would mitigate that and would let you adjust the viscosity for better handling and flow.
You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.
Thanks btroj. I think that with all the talent here the lube requirements of post #1 will eventually be met. I've got a LOT of work yet to do with the PC+Graphite and PC+hBN but the Paraffin/Vaselin+Graphite is interesting as well. It seems more in line with the work done by Jim Conner with his BM lube using an Xlox "carrier" for the Graphite.
The whole Alox lineup is based on "oxidized petroleum fractions", which is the gunk scraped off the bottom of the distillation towers. Crude oil is rife with various waxes and metal soaps. Calcium stearate is what made Pennsylvania Crude so desired as a base for engine oil due to primitive fractional distillation techniques of old that failed to remove such "contaminants". Calcium is a beneficial anti-scuff and boundary lubricant in engine oil, but has a tendency to accumulate hard deposits in rifle barrels with high-pressure loads, which is why I don't like it. Accuracy starts to go south within 10-20 rounds in some instances. Alox is concentrated burnt wax, heavy oil, minerals, metal soaps, and other dinosaur residue that works very well as a medium-duty boolit lube, but I seriously doubt any "extreme" formula will ultimately contain any of it.
Gear
Ok, I finally got a chance to shoot some Castor TnT last night, the jury is still out. Stainless Ruger .45 Colt, ten rounds, got a surprising amount of smoke from the first few and then it seemed to calm down. The stuff is dry, leaving only a faint, clear residue on the brass and no residue on the cylinder face, but a fairly wet lube star. Holes in the paper were very black around the edges, indicating wet bore. I'm not sure what to think, but I know it needs firming up and that might help the smoke.
Gear
Yeh, I don't know what I was thinking, (probly looking for a carrier with minimum left behind on the bore) Graphite fixed in paraffin would be as hard/dry as paraffin. So, 50/50 bowl wax and paraffin, then half and half again with graphite?
We need somebody/something to keep the government (cops and bureaucrats too) HONEST (by non government oversight).
Every "freedom" (latitude) given to government is a loophole in the rule of law. Every loophole in the rule of law is another hole in our freedom. When they even obey the law that is. Too often government seems to feel itself above the law.
We forgot to take out the trash in 2012, but 2016 was a charm! YESSS!
That much bowl wax would make it pretty sticky, that has been shown to have issues too. Then again, the graphite might mitigate the stickiness. This is why so many test batches have been made.
If new readers of this get anything from the thread it should be that there is no one single path of testing right now. Many of use are going in different directions and sharing info. I am certain that Eutectic is using Alox just to irritate someone else........
You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.
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