"Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

[Grump]

R5R:

What went wrong with that red stuff you sent me? Things got way too busy the end of last summer (son leaving on a mission) and I never even got any of it applied to bullets for hot-weather testing.

Yeah, I think the green stuff was SL 61.1. I seem to remember that stuff coming out of last winter with flying colors, but warm weather showed its weaknesses. I thought I was on the verge of just *finding* an accurate load with that rifle (first time with Boolits, two ARs) when I got word that it was having stringing and flyers problems.

[btroj]

It did have vertical stringing problems in my rifle. I was just pointing out that stringing was a different issue from the fouling.

I have some stuff from Gear but haven't gotten to the range with it yet. I'm waiting for temps at least near freezing and with little wind. That could be a while.

[runfiverun]

I'm trying to recall what the red lube was..
it may have been a soap lube made with micro-wax, or a faux ben's red.
I sent out a bunch of samples of different things around that same time and also had about 8-10 different lubes made up sitting about the garage.
I still have a thixotropic ester-paraffin lube made up [that looks good for high pressure] and a soap-lithium stearate lube sitting there waiting to be tested.

[btroj]

How many do you have that were never shot? I know I have 3 to 5 of those.

[runfiverun]

I have some blended lube mixes that never even made it into a carrier.
the GEL I made from mineral oil and ivory got tossed the other day along with some [6-7] dead end mixes that just weren't gonna pan out, I didn't even hesitate to just toss them.

I made and modified a biiiig batch of "homo lube" [I think 357max coined that term] a while back and have been shooting it in my revolvers for at least a year now. [over 3-5 gallon buckets worth of boolits so far]
I just modify the final visc of any batches of homo-lube I end up with and shoot it or mix it with the old batch and keep on using it up.

[geargnasher]

Last lube test I did was on a white-tail, it was with some ammo I loaded for a pig hunt last spring and the box was marked as SL-BETA. Shot three quick rounds from a CLEAN barrel that morning, first two cut each other at 50 yards and the third had a little strand of paper between it and the first two for a 7/16" group. Left it dirty and plugged a deer with it that afternoon. It was just above freezing both times I shot. Somebody remind me again why I decided this lube sucked?

I'm wondering if the new, non-melting grease I came up with would work in the SL series if subbed in for the Assemblee Goo, since the goo might be the the cause of the stringing factor by going wet too soon. I noticed the testing I did with most of the SL variants was in warmer weather.

Gear

[btroj]

Maybe reduce the oil while leaving wax and soap where they are? The oil is causing the purging, we know that, so leave it minimal. If it works in cold then we know it will be fine in heat unless it strings vertically. Sort of make a minimal cold weather lube in hopes it isn't so wet that it goes goofy in heat.

[geargnasher]

SL-Beta had no oil. Just equal parts fresh soap, AG, and beeswax. It seemed we couldn't reduce the oils enough, even past zero. Remember the SL-61 with mineral oil and castor? That stuff was all over the place in the heat. The SL-61.2 or whatever it was (61.1 was Run's version with the oils in my recipe cut in half) that you called "flubber" keeps haunting me. It was just fantastic in handguns and if it followed a lube with some beeswax in it the next five shots would drill a hole at a hunnert.

Gear

[btroj]

I suppose I should clarify what I meant. Replace the AG with your oil but reduce the amount. Maybe 45/45/10? We know what too much oil does so start low. If it is enough oil in cold then it will be plenty in heat.
I need to see what some of those lubes do in cold.

[geargnasher]

Couldn't use beeswax if we did that, the "oil" we're talking about (a very sticky #2 grease, really) will blend with melted wax but not really "melt" itself, so either paraffin, micro, or a blend would be needed to melt the soap. It could work, the soap would just be there to hold the wax together in the heat, and both would be there to stiffen the "grease" enough to stay on the boolit. I'd be SORELY tempted to add some PAO two-stroke to it for good measure and help the glide a bit.

Gear

[btroj]

The grease can't be heated enough to get the soap into it?
If nothing else we could use a mix of microwax and beeswax, they each have some beneficial properties.

What happens if you use you new grease to make a modified MML with some soap added? Is this grease better than plain old lithium?

[geargnasher]

I don't know if it's better or not, but it's good stuff and has many of the same properties of a good, exteme-pressure, anti-fret, anti-wear, anti-corrosion grease. The "rub" is it doesn't melt at all, so one might get soap to melt into IT without burning, or might not, IDK. I always had the best luck making soap lubes with fresh, wet soap slivers and letting the water foam it up into tiny particles that were easy to melt into the oil/wax by the time the water boiled off, but that trick seemed to require a certain amount of liquid in the pot to work. Remember how dry TnT was to make? It was like a thick paste in the intermediate stage before it went fully-liquid and you had to be careful or it would burn on the bottom. I'll have to play with this stuff some more and see what CAN be done with it so we know what our options are. I know it's compatible with waxes and just about any oil, so we're good there.

My biggest challenge is trying to determine just how to use this stuff. Part of the eternal lube problem is keeping a consistent "wet" point. Temperature changes made it really tough to find a do-all lube because the wet point happens in different points in the barrel based on temperature. I said in Run's thread (the one that led to this one) that I thought an inert substance would be best, one that maintained it's viscosity regardless of temperature but was fairly soft to begin with. I'm not so sure now, but we really didn't have a true, non-melting lube before, or at least one that could withstand rifle temperature/dwell time without the stearate thickeners breaking down.

OOOOHHH, the idea faery just sprinkled me with pixie dust, gotta go try something,....

Gear

[btroj]

Oh no, not the idea fairy, that is never a good thing......

[geargnasher]

You're right, it wasn't. I tried hBN as a thickener, then Baragel 24. Might make a good poster adhesive.

Gear

[badgeredd]

Are you guys getting any COLD weather shooting in?

I wanted to shoot some with my lube but wind chills in the -30 to -45 degree range bring the wimp out in me. It should be somewhat reasonable as far as temp go tomorrow, zero or slightly above.

Edd

[Eutectic]

Yep!!

Lately it puts the COLD in cold starts......

Eutectic

[btroj]

There is cold weather shooting and there is "are you fricking stupid" weather shooting.

Short answer is no. I avoid outdoors in sub zero windchills.

[Eutectic]

There is cold weather shooting and there is "are you fricking stupid" weather shooting.

Short answer is no. I avoid outdoors in sub zero windchills.

Doilies and lace..... And it is so warm inside!!

But "Extreme" has a COLD side......

Found by those who don't hide......

Eutectic

[btroj]

I hide. Often.

[runfiverun]

paraffin waxes will take the grease with no issues..
remember that it also has a break over point and goes liquid all at once, this lead us down the synth wax path then to the AG as a middle modifier because of the melt temp.
the carrier is still the big issue as it has been for most the whole time now.