"Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

[357maximum]

Satan's Lube ,,,,merely a tweak on the old NRA formula....simple....so simple that most would be lube cooks ignore it....if it's that easy it cannot work right? How can something with no eye of newt or wing of virgin vampire bat even think of working.

SATANS' LUBE
6oz vaseline
6oz paraffin
6oz beeswax
1 oz dried ivory flakes (foodprocessor) melt/combine everything but the beeswax and then remove from heat for a bit before the beeswax goes in to keep from scorching the beeswax. Pretty simple.

Edd's Mix is good to, but people seem to have some aversion to ordering the 10 lb block of microwax for some reason.

Plain ol beeswax and vaseline will do what about 90% of the pistol packin folks here do also...but again...too easy right?

[btroj]

That 10 pound block of MW will make a whole heap of lube. It stores well too.

[badgeredd]

Edd's full synthetic is a good one from what I saw in one range session and plus it is a dead simple lube. It is basically speed green using 160deg nicrowax, ivory and amsoil synthetic 2 stroke. Not sure of his exact recipe but his ideas and the recipe I used following his thoughts worked as good as anything else I have tried.

In the above recipe I substituted the 160 degree microwax for the beeswax in Speed Green and added 1 oz. ivory to the Amsoil before mixing all together. I think a guy might be better served to use (instead of 4 oz. Amsoil):

3 Oz. Amsoil 100:1, 12 oz. 160Microwax, 1 oz Ivory.

My opinion is 4 oz. of oil is just a bit too soft.

Also I have been working with a recipe that needs a little tweaking but seems to be pretty good right now.

6 oz. parafin, 4 oz 150 Microwax, 4 oz 160 microwax, 4 oz Amsoil 100:1, 3 oz ivory. Feel free to tweak it as will I shortly. My idea is to eliminate the beeswax (if possible) to see if the lube is less temperature sensitive. MAYBE a bit less of one or both microwaxes (perhaps 3 oz of each?) would be better...not really sure yet as I have some COLD weather shooting to do to see how it fares in cold temps. Summer heat was very good (90s) but could have been just a tad harder.

Edd

[btroj]

Does this stuff tend to go liquid all at once or does it have a short transition phase?

I like the idea of using something to keep the oils under control a bit. The soap should also help keep if from going too soft as temps rise.

Edd, if you aren't careful you will end up wearing a big hat. Just saying.

[357maximum]

Brad...the "plastic" range is very short on all the petro/microwaxes I have palyed with, but short plastic range seems to be what gitsRdid in the cold. The more beeswax you remove from the 1st recipe of Edd's to be replaced by the micro the shorter yet that pahse becomes, .......but the small amount of soap helps to mitigate "the waterfall" just enough for our uses in sizers and up to at least 90deg shooting and such....with no first shot going "wild" regardless of the temp.....unless you happen to live just outside the toll booth to Haites perhaps.


In person Edd really does resemble his avatar ....hmmm a Badger wearing a Sumbrero....momma might just find it sexy there Edd, maybe ya should try it.

[geargnasher]

Throughout this past year I've blended various mixes of micro 180, Yaley Shaping wax, (micro/paraffin beeswax substitute), and Gulf wax trying to achieve a good, non-beeswax base. I think there's some merit to that concept, and also that micro 160 is probably a better wax for boolit lube than is the 180 stuff. I used to hate paraffin, but the more I use it, the more value I see that it has. Basically, it goes liquid right now under pressure, doesn't make things too slick, and yet adds some stiffness to microwax. I agree with you fellas, my guns keep telling me there needs to be some micro or beeswax in there for some reason, and paraffin for others, if I use wax at all.

Shooting from just past the left gate hinge of hell will unravel quite a few lubes that are otherwise excellent.

Gear

[btroj]

That waterfall phase change is bad stuff when temps get high.

The soap should mitigate that pretty well, seems to in other recipes so far.

I have some 180 microwax. Wonder how that would work.

Mike, you have messes with the microwax a bunch, other than melt point do the properties of the various Microwaxes seem the same? Same stickiness, workability and what not?

Just wondering how the melt point factors into the whole. In short- would MW 180 do differently in cold or hot weather than MW 150? Seems logical that it should, just don't know if we have definitive "proof".

Edd, have you tried a batch with various single MW melt points to see how they behave in hot or cold weather?

[btroj]

Looking at blended waxes I see they have a couple melt points for paraffin.

Can we eliminate some of the "wetness" of a lube like MML by adjusting the waxes alone?

Gear, what happens if a higher melt point microwax is blended with paraffin with your new oil? Maybe 50/50 MW180 and paraffin 135 from blended waxes? Adjust wax ratio from there to get better cold or hot weather behaviors.

[357maximum]

I firmly believe that the higher the melt temp goes with microwax ...that the more mineral oil has been removed from it....yep...I believe it that simple. Except for the mineral oil content (wetness) all microwaxes tend to behave pretty much identical. Vaseline is just microwax that has had very little of the mineral oil removed....and they get "drier" from there. They all have their use if you are willing to tweak them to what you want.

[357maximum]

Can we eliminate some of the "wetness" of a lube like MML by adjusting the waxes alone?

.

You typed this while I was typing my previous post...IMHO the answer is a resounding YES. I have done it to "match the hatch" for my locale....I am sure you can do it for yours.

[geargnasher]

Looking at blended waxes I see they have a couple melt points for paraffin.

Can we eliminate some of the "wetness" of a lube like MML by adjusting the waxes alone?

Gear, what happens if a higher melt point microwax is blended with paraffin with your new oil? Maybe 50/50 MW180 and paraffin 135 from blended waxes? Adjust wax ratio from there to get better cold or hot weather behaviors.

BTDT with Gulf, it feels good but haven't put any downrange yet. All I've tested myself is the BW and MW versions, both in MV and HV rifles and in pistols and pistol caliber rifles. I think I gave you enough of each, might slice off an equal part of the P and MW 50/50, about a teaspoon each, and give her a go. At least feel of it and see what you think. I haven't shot the paraffin version myself yet, still waiting on pillars. Might have to give it a go with the .308 this weekend, though, I doubt the XCB will be range-ready in time.

Gear

[btroj]

Ok, makes perfect sense.

I think mineral oil is actually more similar to paraffin than microwax but very similar in concept. Difference is straight chain or branched chain molecules.

So a mix of Microwaxes doesn't really lengthen the melting phase change over a range of temps but rather just moves it to a different reasonably rapid melt point.

What can we do to get the wax to melt slowly over a range rather than so abruptly? Something other than beeswax?

[btroj]

Ok Ian, I may just do that. I know this is a bit counter to the direction you are currently going but have you tried a small amount of soap with this new oil? Maybe an amount similar to what is in Felix lube?

[geargnasher]

I firmly believe that the higher the melt temp goes with microwax ...that the more mineral oil has been removed from it....yep...I believe it that simple. Except for the mineral oil content (wetness) all microwaxes tend to behave pretty much identical. Vaseline is just microwax that has had very little of the mineral oil removed....and they get "drier" from there. They all have their use if you are willing to tweak them to what you want.

I've had a hard time finding the "real truth" here, but I have a microwax that's just the consistency of Vaseline, and as best I can remember from researching, petroleum jelly is paraffinic. Micro is the by-product of hydrotreated napthenic oils (like engine oils, or "brightstock" base oils) while paraffin is the by-product of paraffinic oils. I never did understand the difference very well, but there is one. What Vaseline is is anyone's guess, I guess.

Anyway, I totally agree that oil content is probably most of it with the BW line of either wax. Add a titch of engine oil to Micro 180 and the melt point plummets and it gets nice and pliable. Doesn't take much oil to do it, either.

Gear

[btroj]

Paraffinics tends to be straight chain hydrocarbons, napthenic is cyclic chains.

I think, that is heavy on think, that the paraffins chains lay very close together with little space between them. The cyclic napthenic chains do pack together as nicely and leave small gaps between the chains. These gaps hold oils well.

I am no expert but that is my understanding of the basic chemistry.

[geargnasher]

Ok Ian, I may just do that. I know this is a bit counter to the direction you are currently going but have you tried a small amount of soap with this new oil? Maybe an amount similar to what is in Felix lube?

I was going to do that last night but it was 10:30 when the idea hit me and already below freezing outside. Another time. What I was going to do, actually, was just try to stiffen it enough with soap to make it hold on its own and maybe add a few drops of "bullplate" to give it some glide. What I DID do is mix TnT and some of that new oil with a putty knife, it gets soft and brings new meaning to the term "stringy". My hope was that the green goo will protect the soap from burning and the soap will stiffen and stabilize the goo enough to eliminate the need for wax. This is a true experiment in NONMELTING lube, similar to TnT which prove the concept well enough save for the soap burning up.

Gear

[geargnasher]

Yeah, that rings a bell. Something about straight and branched hydrocarbons. You get the same sort of differences with monoester, diester, and triester oils. Difference is the branching.

Gear

[btroj]

Something similar to what Edd is doing but with your new oil is what I was thinking.

Does the soap in TnT burn or does it just get "de-oiled" and then burn? Can we prevent the burn if the grease breakesa part due to pressure? Can we add a small amount, maybe 10 or 20 percent, wax to stop the grease from breaking down?

[357maximum]

Ok, makes perfect sense.

I think mineral oil is actually more similar to paraffin than microwax but very similar in concept. Difference is straight chain or branched chain molecules.

So a mix of Microwaxes doesn't really lengthen the melting phase change over a range of temps but rather just moves it to a different reasonably rapid melt point.

What can we do to get the wax to melt slowly over a range rather than so abruptly? Something other than beeswax?

Beeswax is the best I have found for that, so I do not know, but Vybar was one thing I tried very unsuccessfully. A similar product without the bad habits of embrittlement might work. Microwax/paraffin/mineral oil/vaseline all come from the same crude crud but the answer should come from a close cousin of theirs methinks. Maybe one of the more gentle of the refined plasticisers would get you to where YOU wanna be????. Alot of this is what I was trying to point out 6 months ago before we all pissed each other off and I took my toys and went home for a stretch. I get frustrated when I cannot express myself correctly I spose...my shortcoming not anyone elses.

When you find what you are looking for it will be an ahaaaa palm to the head kinda deal I think. I do not know what THAT is, but I believe now that you are headed in the right direction. I cannot help as I go away and hide after 90- 95 degrees....damn sure ain't shooting for pleasure when it's that hot out. If I had to figure this out.... personally I would slowly add more soap up to about 8% total and then look towards the plastic fishing worm industry for inspiration.

[btroj]

I think this is the way to head. Adjust the wax base first to get some decent cold and warm weather behaviors then figure the oil or grease part out. Seems backwards but the carrier or base seems to be the real problem.

What we need is a MMML with a slightly longer melt range or a higher melt point entirely. This may hurt low end performance but could improve hot weather behavior.

Ok Mike! what proportions do you suggest for MML using beeswax and MW 180? I may try some with a bot so soap added to see how that changes the behavior at higher temps. May need to wait a bit as high temps won't be back for 6 months.......