"Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

[Doc Highwall]

At one time a older friend told me he was a “Temperature Hunter”, when I asked him what that meant he said when the temperature outside was equal to his age it was warm enough to go outside, and each year it was 1 degree warmer.

So I take this as when somebody says it needs to be 65 degrees outside that they are 65 years old.

[Eutectic]

So with a -20 temp sold exposed to an instantaneous temperature increase from gun powder, what do you suppose is happening?

-Steve

I think you are a thinker Steven.... so this thread is a good place for you. You have some facts here and you have some unknowns.
You like to theorize...... Again, just what we need for the 'Extreme' lube thread! We deal in unknowns here for sure!

You have unknowns in your comments above.

Let's start with the BIG one....... Time. I have observed over many years that it is the 'norm' for individuals to have a very hard time thinking in time duration that is faster than human reaction time. Human reaction time is snail slow as compared to 'time' in the firing cycle of our gun. So time is the BIG variable we almost always seem to gloss over or flat ignore. (maybe not on purpose)
Your word underlined in the above quote is a 'gloss over'.

You ask me, "what do you suppose is happening?" in your scenario.

I have some facts, which are the most valuable info when we theorize..... I have some important variables you don't mention.... And I have some theories.

The facts..... I have several guns that have been exposed to the above quote. I have experienced no cracking so far. I have experienced no surface irregularities (like heat checking or surface cracks) viewed through a borescope. This is real evidence to pour into our theorizing.

(Some) Variables not mentioned.....

Time...... Exposure time of the large temperature differential can be measured in mere microseconds.

A single exposure (as in our case), or multiple as a gatling gun for example.

Heat sink..... Our barrel is a wonderful 'heat sink'.

BTU actually transferred and to what depth?

Boolit lube is a coolant..... to what affect in our scenario?

There are more if we ponder. We humans seem to always forget some!

Theories can always change; we should be observant of this.

For the moment I believe this is like the finger rapidly passed through the candle flame. It you can move fast enough you won't even feel any heat! Actual BTU transferred is so small that even our nerve sensors don't pick it up!

Now.... Take the elapsed time for the above candle/finger thing to happen. Shorten that time duration to the tenth power or better yet calculate the time in microseconds.

My thoughts... Exposure time is so short your hot/cold differential doesn't develop to any significant degree to cause damage.... (And I sure hope my theory is correct!!!!!)

Eutectic

[felix]

Yeah, nerve sensors just might be able to pick up higher changes over a smaller time differential, but the brain making sense of such a signal becomes the real question. Anyway, jack jumping over the candle stick is reminiscent of the killer doing his "great balls afire"! Sorry, couldn't resist. ... felix

[Doc Highwall]

I have observed with my pressure trace that the barrel time with a 27.25" barrel to be approximately only 3 milliseconds max at 1700+ fps. Now where long enough to heat the barrel, but the stresses due to pressure will be.

[felix]

Except for the throat area plus, Doc. That area gets nitrided quite readily. ... felix

[Steven]

Man, you can't afford typos or brain farts on this forum. My unknowns are of an internal working model that I regard as a necessary flaw. You can't expect to create something new when you live in the norm, LOL. Alright Boolit Masters, I got one for ya... why is it when I eletroplate my bullets, I can shoot hundreds of rounds and find zero leading? I'll give you the conditions. There's no lube (they are sized), I use an MP HP .45, the BHN is 12.... Here's the part that throws me off, I've caught several rounds and all the copper seems to..... disintegrate? Surly the barrel serrations would cut past the copper plating and subject SOME leading or is my fit so perfect that it JUST ain't happenin?

[jimmy l]

i have shot 22 long rifles in pistols and rifles at fourty below just fine except remington yellow jackets which just barely exit the muzzle of a four inch pistol. wish i had shot lead in centerfires in alaska what a cold weather lab

[Doc Highwall]

I agree with you felix and it will slowly creep forward to a point and then diminish with distance from the case mouth. The shoulder angle and case neck length will also play a factor as to how it will develop, with a steeper shoulder angle longer neck being better then a shallow angle and short neck.

Steven, what size is your groove diameter and what do you size your bullets to before plating? If the bullet is .001"-.002" larger then the groove size the bullet will seal the bore, but you will get some plating in the barrel just like a copper plated 22Lr. will.

[jimmy l]

cars in alaSKA travel at 50 below and colder i have been caribou hunting at 50 below, not fun but doable . fighter aircraft can reach over a hundred below. 4130 steel is more forgiving that you think. ask soldiers winter training at fort wainwright out of fairbanks. steel is fine but lubes now thats a whole different animal. most friends that winter hunted boiled thier guns and ran them dry, but you can bet the military now has a super lube that would mix into a bullet lube

[Steven]

Doc, my MP mold is .452, I size them after I electroplate with a .452 sizer

[runfiverun]

you are crushing the plating between the lead core and the rifling.
you'll see the lead underneath because the copper 'dust' is purged at the bore.
I have seen copper spatters on close targets from plated bullets when they are driven hard.

[felix]

Steve, a brain fart just might be the ticket to success here. Need some fresher ones. If the military has been eating beans in Alaska, maybe the effects will float to the top and Jimmy1 will be the recipient and pass the sweet smell back here. We need a breakthrough of some sort, or we must just have to conclude, for the time being, with what we already have discovered. ... felix

[Steven]

If the military has been eating beans in Alaska, maybe the effects will float to the top and Jimmy1 will be the recipient and pass the sweet smell back here

That statement has driven me to become an alcoholic.

By the way, I need to throw this out there. I'm currently a student of Psychology and finals are around the corner, I'm under a ton of stress. Can someone else take it upon themselves to test the oil I recommended. I'll try to find some time to see if there's another brand with higher levels of Oleic. (or however it was spelled)

[leftiye]

I think you are a thinker Steven.... so this thread is a good place for you. You have some facts here and you have some unknowns.
You like to theorize...... Again, just what we need for the 'Extreme' lube thread! We deal in unknowns here for sure!

You have unknowns in your comments above.

Let's start with the BIG one....... Time. I have observed over many years that it is the 'norm' for individuals to have a very hard time thinking in time duration that is faster than human reaction time. Human reaction time is snail slow as compared to 'time' in the firing cycle of our gun. So time is the BIG variable we almost always seem to gloss over or flat ignore. (maybe not on purpose)
Your word underlined in the above quote is a 'gloss over'.

You ask me, "what do you suppose is happening?" in your scenario.

I have some facts, which are the most valuable info when we theorize..... I have some important variables you don't mention.... And I have some theories.

The facts..... I have several guns that have been exposed to the above quote. I have experienced no cracking so far. I have experienced no surface irregularities (like heat checking or surface cracks) viewed through a borescope. This is real evidence to pour into our theorizing.

(Some) Variables not mentioned.....

Time...... Exposure time of the large temperature differential can be measured in mere microseconds.

A single exposure (as in our case), or multiple as a gatling gun for example.

Heat sink..... Our barrel is a wonderful 'heat sink'.

BTU actually transferred and to what depth?

Boolit lube is a coolant..... to what affect in our scenario?

There are more if we ponder. We humans seem to always forget some!

Theories can always change; we should be observant of this.

For the moment I believe this is like the finger rapidly passed through the candle flame. It you can move fast enough you won't even feel any heat! Actual BTU transferred is so small that even our nerve sensors don't pick it up!

Now.... Take the elapsed time for the above candle/finger thing to happen. Shorten that time duration to the tenth power or better yet calculate the time in microseconds.

My thoughts... Exposure time is so short your hot/cold differential doesn't develop to any significant degree to cause damage.... (And I sure hope my theory is correct!!!!!)

Eutectic

In other words maybe the barrel heats up by increments of temp increase too small to cause even a barrel at "brittle" temp to react. A more interesting problem would be actual barrel flexing due to pressure. This though I'd wager there's never been a barrel known to have blown up due to low ambient temperature. Witness all of the different rounds fired in WW2 in subzero temps in the Russian campaign. Also the fact that military low temp procedure may be to use diesel for lubricant, but no issues with blowing up due to cold.

[Eutectic]

Can someone else take it upon themselves to test the oil I recommended.

I should have a quart showing up any day now.

Eutectic

[grampa243]

hey has anyone looked at this stuff?

http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_fil.../MSDS/286C.pdf

http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_fil...heets/286C.pdf

i just had an order from one of my customers for this stuff 3 cases of ten @ $12ish a tub.

they use it in turbines of some kind

sorry if this is way off topic or already but hashed over.

[runfiverun]

the fumed silica is the only thing i would be overly cautious of.
it being in the 5-8% range is just about enough to show up.
shooting it straight might work similar to the "J" lube, and you might be able to mix it with a wax.
by not melting the wax but getting it to a soft state and blending the two.

[grampa243]

hey has anyone looked at this stuff?

http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_fil.../MSDS/286C.pdf

http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_fil...heets/286C.pdf

i just had an order from one of my customers for this stuff 3 cases of ten @ $12ish a tub.

they use it in turbines of some kind

sorry if this is way off topic or already but hashed over.

from what i read here if you cook it a little it would start to harden up without adding anything.

TD Sheets

As the temperatures continues to become elevated the synthetic base
fluids begin to volatilize cleanly without leaving any residues, varnishes, gums or carbon
deposits on the bearing surfaces. Once the synthetic base fluids have volatilized off a solid
lubricant film consisting of the high temperature anti-wear extreme pressure additive and the
combination of molybdenum disulfide, graphite and copper flake is left behind to lubricate at
temperatures up to 1,200°F (650°).

[geargnasher]

What happens if you cook it is the EP wear additives are all that's left. This is a common technique of assuring lubrication in boundary conditions. The lube is loaded with additives that do the job even in the absence of the oil, and the oil doubles as both a lube and a vehicle for distributing the EP coating additives.

Gear

[Grump]

Well, before switching out the dies and putting the .223 loads together, I decided to put a few on the dashboard of the ol' 4-wheeled internal combustion conveyance on what might be our first 90° day.

Not only did it hold itself in the grooves without slumping or flowing, it didn't even leave an oil smudge on the 3x5 card. The one with the empty groove, the lube contacted the card and it pulled out. You can see it still wanted to stay together.

So, you might say it needs to be handled as gingerly at 140+ as stuff with ??Javelina?? needs to be handled at 90°F. But it won't melt that I can tell.

Instrumented temp was about 148° F.

The soda can popped its "freeze plug" the day before, which inspired this part of the test.

Now on to the accuracy testing.

I'm encouraged that even though it won't flow at these temps (can't drain out the sizer with a heat gun...), it does get soft enough to swab out... If I ever want to switch lubes.

Huge thanks to our friend in Soda Springs, ID for sending me these.