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Thread: "Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

  1. #2001
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    Wow, that wasn't intentional, but I officially OWN post #2000! We made it, guys!

    Gear

  2. #2002
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    Braggard!
    It is only fair as you have been the driving force behind this. Well, run deserves credit too.

    I think the current wax/soap ratios will keep lube from running at sane temps. Only time will tell with that I suppose. Maybe a ball of wax on some paper placed in the hot sun under a glass to trap and hold heat? Watch and see if it bleeds oil or leaves a gooey residue on the paper.

    I agree that accuracy is important but not the over riding factor. I am happy with a lube that gives good accuracy at a wide range of temps. Ammo handling is important, I don't like greasy rounds of handgun ammo in the heat.

    Congrats to all on 2K posts, at what point does a thread get its own bullets to indicate post count?

  3. #2003
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    Well, it's a sticky and somebody gave it five stars, so it's pretty much maxed-out on decoration. You guys have been great! I'd just like to be able to edit the title to add on word--"fulfilled" and put the winning formula in the OP in hot pink script.

    I can't stop thinking about the hBN maybe fixing the Beta or SL-62. You know, I think I'll try that NEXT, since I know just what those formulas can do with the right amount of slickum, and exactly what would help them. We need to know what effect hBN has anyway.

    Gear

  4. #2004
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    Maybe hBN is the solid filler you have been looking for? Something that adds a bit of firmness without changing viscosity, melt point, or other physical properties. An extremely fine grade of graphite may work too.
    I think very small amounts are going to be the key.
    Would this also work well in rough bores because it helps smooth over the rough spots?

  5. #2005
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    the dry beta and the graphite would do well.
    this route is going to best for temperature anyway, we end up fighting core issues in the cold.
    if there isn't anything there but dry powder fouling there ain't anything to fix.
    the graphite in the lube would be more compatible.
    something dry and solid in there moving around would help get the lube flowing better anyway.

    the 61-0/ala 61.1 with another click lowered oil content would benefit from the hbn.
    kind of like a 61.5 version.

  6. #2006
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    No moly allowed folks! I damaged just too many good clothes when reloading/shooting. You don't know the damage until the pants and shirts are washed. The black spots remain forever. Maybe with graphite also, but I don't know that, but anything fine and hard, and the wrong color for clothes should be ignored. ... felix


    Btroj's post below says graphite washes out. Glad to know that. But, on the first wash? ... felix
    Last edited by felix; 03-28-2013 at 09:06 PM.
    felix

  7. #2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edubya View Post
    That was a strange word to me. I had to Google it to find the definition and what other possibilities for a supplement. I learned that there are a lot of other fluids, including, joint cushion and semen that are thixotropic! Viscosity lightens under pressure.

    EW
    That's what she said.

  8. #2008
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    Yah, moly is a pain. I think graphite or hBN would be better choices. Graphite at least washes off stuff, moly doesn't.
    Graphite should suspend quite well in this base as it begins to gel. It get thick enough early on the prevent settling. I doubt we will have issues regarding the graphite settling out.

  9. #2009
    Boolit Master shredder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by btroj View Post
    I am happy to have post 1984. What a great year to have graduated high school.
    Me too! That's funny, I feel a bit old now that I think about that!!

  10. #2010
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    Hey Gear...you ever think about cracking a window and/or trading your black pickup in for a white one.

    Seriously though...I KNOW that what I posted is not exactly what you seek....I told Edd that fact 10 minutes after I posted it, but I thought that it might help those souls that are not guarding the gates of Hell Merely getting some of the oils out of the mix helped alot, but I still get smaller groups without all the soap........what I posted may not be extreem but it does work HERE and NOW and from 650 to 2500 fps.......there and later is your problem....GOOD LUCK, but I think the second all that oil got the boot you were headed the right way. Joe Lube and Gear1Goo were just too much >>TOO MUCH. A good idea taken too far is all.......proceed and have fun and thanks again for the TRANNY GOO.....I am still playing with it/ tweaking around with it.......but I like it.

    Mike

  11. #2011
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    Mike, my current test batch has way less oil.
    I used 1 oz ivory, 1 oz goo, 1/2 oz each beeswax and paraffin. I added 1 3/4 tea K2 2 stroke and 1 tea mineral oil.
    It is much stiffer and dryer than the original yet has enough stickiness to easily go on by hand.
    I thinks mix of waxes is the best , let each balance the negatives of the other.

    Cold weather testing isn't gonna happen much any more, we are warming up. Finally.
    It will be very interesting to see how these lubes handle the heat. if we can get good results with a set level of oils in heat then they should be fine in cold too, least they won't be too slick in the cold.

  12. #2012
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    Brad

    It took me that one batch of GearGoo1 to start ditching oil......I have test lots that are real similar to yours above, I also have some that are hybridized with other recipes....just have not had the time or the weather when I had time to test them all. Plus I got the idea that I needed to upgrade my bench and right the moment my loading room looks like a trailer park after a tornado.

    I am still trying to find a paraffin/micro blend that gets rid of the beeswax altogether, but I have not found the handling balance with it yet. When I ditch the beeswax I either end up with mortar or gooey putty so the answer is there to be found...somewhere/eventually. It will not satisfy Ian's goal with all that soap, but it might satisfy ME....we shall see.

  13. #2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by btroj View Post
    MJ, I don't think a high melt point wax is required. Candle makers add stearate to increase paraffins melt point. A few percent makes it melt at upwards of 30 or 40 degrees higher. We have way more stearate than that. These lies just plain don't melt at any real temps we might ever see around ammo. I don't store my ammo anyplace that might get near 400 degrees and event he the lube is just softened, not melted of running.
    I don't know about that. Seems the only criticism of MML is that it "falls apart" when temps hit triple digits and there is a significant proportion of paraffin contained in MML. Besides, microcrystalline wax is the industry standard these days for extending the melt point of paraffin, not stearate. Now stearic acid, that's a horse of a different color which will increase the melt point of paraffin. Just tossing whatever-stearate into wax to increase the melt point only creates problems and I've never been able to melt enough sodium stearate (for example) into wax to move the melt point significantly without scorching the heck out of the wax. IMHO, at least for the time being, stearates are for grease making, period.

    MJ
    It's not about gun control, it's about people control. The progressives are using terrorists and the insane to further their agenda. If the socialist news media wasn't complicit, we could sit back and watch Fast & Furious and Benghazi-gate unfold.

  14. #2014
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    I never had any problem with making a workable consistency with the SL-61, 62, or any of the similar, previous and unpublished SL series using straight microwax or micro-paraffin blends. But I taught myself how to do it through much trial and error, as those who weren't paying attention to Lamar's and my posts will have to do as well.

    Gear

  15. #2015
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    Gear have I mentioned Bentone Clay? as in Baragel? it will make non drip greases, will gel oils and swells and holds oil/wax from melting
    bruce

  16. #2016
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    http://www.elementis-specialties.com/esweb/WebProducts.nsf/allbydocid/D9CBC4FDD65CD431852575F90060C0F3/$FILE/BARAGEL%C2%AE%203000.pdf

  17. #2017
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    Hi Bruce, I was afraid you'd given up on us!

    You sent me some Baragel along with some handy instructions and it was one of the very first things I tried early on in this Quest. Unfortunately, it didn't work just as a grease with no wax. The problem has to do with pumpability and that it de-oils when fired, leaving caked streaks of clay in the bore. Maybe if it was milled in a pro machine it would be better? Or maybe with a wax?

    Gear

  18. #2018
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    It would proably be alot better off if I just admit that I am not worthy and carry on about my day...never was real good about paying attention anyway.

  19. #2019
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    might be good as a filler and friction modifier.
    I know it will grab onto oxidized lead.

  20. #2020
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    Baragel is put for me unless it is pretty easily purchased. Specialty items make it too difficult for Joe Blow to make lube. If it is easily purchased then it may have some use. I would think very small amounts.

    MJ, I am hardly an expert on MML but my understanding is that Mike uses mostly microwax to make it, wi a bit o beeswax to keep it from having such a sharp melt point. It does get very soft at 90 plus degrees. That's as much because it has very little soap as much as anything.
    We are making a lube with over 30 percent soap. MML has maybe 40 percent grease which might be 15 percent soap. That means MML has probably well under 10 percent soap. I think is why we see very different high temp properties.

    Make some SL 61 or a variant and ou will see what I mean. It doesn't just harden. It goes thru a definite gel phase. It then hardens. My FIL tried to melt some in order to dip lube some bullets for testing. I hadn't warned him that it doesn't melt easily and he commented that it was a bitch to melt. This was with beeswax alone. If the melt point hadn't been altered then it should have easily melted at temps he expected it to melt at yet it didn't. I call that evidence of a much higher melt point of the lube as compared to the melt temp of the base wax.

    I think the melt temp of the wax is far and away one of the least important physical properties of the wax. I think the hardness, dryness, and stickiness are far more important. I think a mix of waxes will be the final result because each wax brings some beneficial properties and some negatives. A mix of waxes let's each balance out the pluses and minuses of the others.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check