E85 Gas ?

[frkelly74]

I have been eyeing the E85 gas pump at the Mobil station. It is a full $.50 cheaper per gallon than regular 87 octane that I have always used which is $3.99 everywhere right now. If I try it in a 2003 windstar will I be sorry? IT runs pretty good right now and is paid for. I know there are some mechanics out there.

[tubb_ooh_lard]

i wouldnt , i dont know if your van was designed to run on e85 or not , but the $.50 you save at the pump gets lost even in the new flex fuel cars designed to run on it alcohol simply doesnt have the same amount of energy as gas , you can expect to lose 25% or better of your gas milage using it

[tomme boy]

We had a Tahoe that was E85 safe. We tried it a couple of times to just see how it ran. We ran 3 tanks in a row to make sure it was all e85. 35% less cost, MPG dropped 45%. So, not worth it.

I knew that this was going to happen, but the old lady wanted to see. I used to race on the 1/4 mile. I had a alcohol injected motor. We would use about 2.5 gal of alcohol inplace of a gal of 115 race leaded gas. We saved $ using the alcohol, but the whole fuel system has to be made to run the fuel. That was costly.

[mooman76]

You guide should tell you and it probably isn't. It will do damage to your engine if not designed for altenative fuels.

[Houndog]

Put E85 in an engine not setup for it and it WILL be a VERY expensive trip to your favorite mechanic! Ethanol is corrosive and hygrascopic! Think in terms of replacing most of your fuel system components from the corosive action of the Alcohol and the rust from the water it attracts.

[Finster101]

You won't even get so far as stuff rusting. If the tank is very low you probably would not get very far down the road. The fuel system in your car can not adapt quickly enough or have the capacity to dump enough fuel into the motor. Now on the other hand, if you are running a supercharger you can really crank up the boost for lots of fun.

[smkummer]

My son's 2001 S10 2.2 liter goes 400 miles on a tank of 87 octane or 300 miles on E85. So if E85 is $3 and 87 octane is $4, its a wash. It did have a little more pep on the higher octane E85.

[dmize]

DO NOT USE E-85 in your Windstar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It will run like **** turn on check engine light and you will pay a technician to drain your fuel tank and replace the fuel filter.
And FWIW... Every Ford Flex-Fuel vehicle has a sticker comparing fuel cost and mileage between gas and E-85....even a retarded 3 year old can do the math and see E-85 is a joke.
And btw,the most you can run thru a vehicle that is NOT labled E-85 in 10%.
And I am a Ford Senior Master Technician/farmer that npays more for my feed because of the "increased corn demand".

[frkelly74]

Okay then, The nays have it.

[JeffinNZ]

I used to be able to buy 100 octane race fuel for use in my strimmer and chainsaw. It worked REALLY well.

[MtGun44]

E85 is NOT gasoline, is is 85% ethanol and will ruin a normal car. ONLY "Flexfuel" cars
are OK with it.

Bottom line is bad. Ethanol is alcohol. Alcohol has HALF the energy per gallon as gasoline.

So, think about it a bit. Half of 85% is 42%. All of 15% is 15% so E85 will have 42 + 15=57% of
the energy of 100% gasoline. So, expect to get 57% of the miles per gallon. If your Windstar
gets 22 mpg on gasoline, it should get around 0.57 x 22 = 12.5 mpg on E85. Sounds like a
bargain to me. . . . . . . . NOT!!

So, even if you get a 50 cent discount, you cut your miles per gallon nearly in half. You'd have to
pay only 57% of the gas price to BREAK EVEN. If gas is about $3.99 where you are, you'd need to
pay $2.27 per gallon to break even.

Bill

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

As a former professional engine builder, do not use it unless your owners manual says it's safe.
It will corrode anything not made to handle it and it will eat everything made of rubber.

We one place in town here that has 100% ethanol free fuel in all grades. The cheap stuff was good for a 4 mpg improvement in my 1999 Tahoe.

[Bret4207]

Even our mandated 10% ethanol mixes up north here give problems with cars, as well as small engines. The only good to Ethanol gasolines is that a lot of corn farmers are doing rather well financially at the moment.

[Poygan]

I buy a mid grade that is ethanol-free for ten cents a gallon more than E-10 regular and use it for mowers, snow blowers, etc. Two cycle engines get premium only.

Shouldn't there be a wider disparity in price when fuel prices go up? There is consistently a fifty cent difference here between E-10 and E-85 regardless of the price per gallon.

[perotter]

So, think about it a bit. Half of 85% is 42%. All of 15% is 15% so E85 will have 42 + 15=57% of
the energy of 100% gasoline. So, expect to get 57% of the miles per gallon. If your Windstar
gets 22 mpg on gasoline, it should get around 0.57 x 22 = 12.5 mpg on E85.

That is correct only if you are heating water. The BME of ethanol in an engine is much better than the BME of gasoline.

[Ed in North Texas]

I buy a mid grade that is ethanol-free for ten cents a gallon more than E-10 regular and use it for mowers, snow blowers, etc. Two cycle engines get premium only.

Shouldn't there be a wider disparity in price when fuel prices go up? There is consistently a fifty cent difference here between E-10 and E-85 regardless of the price per gallon.

That $0.50 is probably a bit more than the Federal subsidy for the Ethanol, or maybe the exact subsidy amount. I might be mistaken as to the exact amount, but I seem to recollect $0.50 per gallon of Ethanol mixed with gasoline.

Ed

[perotter]

There never was a $0.50 per gallon subsidy for ethanol. There used to be a $0.50 tax credit that the blender was eligible for. That tax credit has ended.

FWIW, a tax credit can only be considered a subsidy if one thinks that 100% of everyone's income belongs to the Fed government and anything we are allowed to keep is a subsidy.

[oldred]

It did have a little more pep on the higher octane E85.

Higher octane does NOT equal more power! All the higher octane rating does is raise the detonation level for the grade of gasoline being used and if an engine is designed for a lower octane then a higher rating is simply a waste of money. People waste money all the time buying "premium" fuel thinking the extra cost is offset by the better performance and power, and thus higher mileage, but such is not the case for most cars because higher octane does not mean more powerful gasoline. The bottom line is if an engine does not "ping" or "knock" on regular then premium is a waste! Premium, or high octane, fuel can allow an engine to reach a higher HP than regular fuel IF the engine is designed and tuned for it (higher compression ratio, spark timing, etc) but an engine designed and tuned for regular will not benefit from this potential. In other words, premium will allow an engine to produce more power by being designed to take advantage of the higher octane (and some are, such as turbocharged and other high performance engines) but unless the engine has the compression ratio and other factors involved then the extra octane is simply wasted.


There is a common argument that the ECM (the car's computer) will automatically retard timing and thus reduce power and mileage when "pinging" or "knock" is encountered and since premium fuel will prevent the "ping" in the first place better performance does indeed result, not true! If the engine is "pinging" on regular then several things could be the cause, the engine in need of maintenance, "lugging" or overloading the engine or just plain bad fuel. Bad fuel is by far the leading cause and in spite of supposedly very strict laws governing gasoline quality octane ratings lower than claimed is all too common. The solution is to switch brands of gasoline and/or the station selling it rather than cough up more money for premium fuel that's not needed. Also the argument that premium will pay for itself by negating the need for the ECM to control "pinging" or spark knock by retarding timing is also not true since this knock when using regular only occurs during periods of heavy engine loading then the premium would only be effective for those brief moments. Intermittent periods of spark knock or "pinging" should be dealt with by changing brands or suppliers of fuel, changing driving habits (don't "lug" the engine) or checking for engine maintenance problems and not by wasting more money on already expen$ive gas! If an engine "pings" constantly on regular grades and switching brands does not help then either serious maintenance problems exist or the engine is designed for premium, if it is meant for premium it will be so marked on the gas gauge.

Bottom line don't waste money on premium fuel for an engine designed for regular!

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

you need to consult your owners manual first , check to see if it can take e85

next the question is it worth it , we have a 2006 implala that is one of the first flex engines , vin number tells me it is ok , but before they printed it on the outside of the car that it was flex

we get 26-28 with tires properly inflated on E10 or what most people call standard reformulated 87 octane

it drops to 22-23 on a full tank of e85 we can fill up just outside the gate of the ethenol plant when we are in the next town over and get it for 75 or 80 cents less

it is almost a wash loosing 6 miles to the gallon

what i haven't tried and have read about is 1 gallon of B25 diesel to a tank full of e85 so about 14:1 gas to B25 it puts back great lube properties and many report engine noise goes down

what the station did realize was form watching recipts they found a lot of people making up what is basically E25 gas it saved them some money but they apparently didn't loose the mileage

make sure your tires are properly inflated to what the tire sais not the owners manual , some owners manuals will drop pressure by 5psi to get a gentler ride , fully inflated tires makes the biggest difference in the mileage on that car , it will get 29-30 high way if it is really highway , most of what we drive is 2 lane county highway

[oldred]

I think one of the biggest problems with E85 is that it tends to attack some Aluminum components in the fuel system of vehicles not designed to use it, these vehicles are usually safe at concentrations of less than about 15% but over that and the Aluminum starts to corrode. I would not use E85 in any vehicle that does not have the proper fuel system specifically designed for the stuff, mixing it with E10 or 100% gas will alleviate the corrosion problem to some extent depending on the dilution but it would be a gamble for no real gain. ANY amount of E85 mixed with E10 or 100% gas is going to reduce fuel mileage by an amount proportional to the amount of alcohol present in the resulting mix, whatever it may be, because alcohol simply does not have the BTUs per pound of gasoline so it is not possible to save money by just mixing a small amount of E85 and expecting no reduction at all in mileage.