reloadable .32 rimfire brass

[tomsp8]

W,
I'm sure I can vouch for everyone that thanks is in order for the trials you're doing.
I tried the cut off wheel, but popped the priming compound a couple times so I quit... Maybe a tiny piece of
cloth in the bottom might prevent it?
ND,
The .32 case prep was a bit of a pain, but again, worked out a somewhat efficient system. I don't
have any real machining tools, so I generally have to wing it. My .308 collet crimp die is perfect
for holding the case. Drop it in from the top, the rim holds it, then raise the ram with a shellholder in
place. I used my leg to hold the handle down, then used an electric drill to drill out the flash hole. The drill
has a built in bubble level on the back, so just eyeballed it as I drilled with a 7/32 bit. Followed that up with
a .220 reamer my b.in law gave me, chucked in the drill, then used a thin (abt .150) steel rod, chucked in the drill, with some self adhesing 320 grit paper wrapped around it to final polish it out to about .223/.224. Gotta change the paper after about 5 or six cases, but easy enough to do. A bit larger reamer would let me skip that last
step, maybe, but that's all I got, so gotta make do....
I then use a piece of metal tubing with a thick flange to install the blank. No idea what it is for, but is
perfect for my needs! Drop the .32 case in upside down, it rests on the rim, and install the blank.
I can just get the blank started by hand, then use the handle of a small hammer (or something similar) to push
the blank in. No need to tap it, just push it firmly. Then my handy flange tool lets me deprime by setting
the case on top and drive out the blank with a metal rod that just fits inside the .22 case. The inner diameter
of the "handy loading tool" is just larger than the .22 rim diameter so it drops right through and the
flange gives plenty of support for the .32 rim to rest on. Kinda hard to describe the "handy tool", so I'll
try to post a pic.
Recessing the blank is another step of course. I chose to leave mine about .008/.010 proud of the
.32 case. They fit the shell holder and allow the gun's action to close at that level, and the firing pin
lights them off.
Sorry for the long post, guys!

[tomsp8]

"Custom Handy Tool" lol

[kootne]

w30wcf, do you see an advantage of the 2.2 Titegroup load over the DualFast #3 load? Velocities are close, seems less work to just load the nail gun blanks. If removing the spent blanks is an issue maybe an answer is looking at some sort of sleeve ( friction held by the blank) to prevent the blank from expanding too much.
Just thinkin'
kootne

[ndnchf]

tomsp8 - My mistake, I thought you had bought pre-made .32 cases. Nice work making them with what you have. Your cases probably seal better than mine with that tight fit of the .22 case. If the crowning job helps this #2 RRB to shoot decent I will be very happy (hope to find out that tomorrow). The 20 .32 XL cases I made were kind of a trial. If the rifle shoots well enough to justify the effort to make more (and better) cases, I have another fifty 327 Federal Magnum cases to make .32 XL with. Since their doesn't seem to be comercially available .224" - .225" drill bit or reamer, I will probably order a.22 match reamer (about $43 from Midway) to make better fitting cases.

[kootne]

tomsp8 - My mistake, I thought you had bought pre-made .32 cases. Nice work making them with what you have. Your cases probably seal better than mine with that tight fit of the .22 case. If the crowning job helps this #2 RRB to shoot decent I will be very happy (hope to find out that tomorrow). The 20 .32 XL cases I made were kind of a trial. If the rifle shoots well enough to justify the effort to make more (and better) cases, I have another fifty 327 Federal Magnum cases to make .32 XL with. Since their doesn't seem to be comercially available .224" - .225" drill bit or reamer, I will probably order a.22 match reamer (about $43 from Midway) to make better fitting cases.

I would try a #2 drill .221, I did some that way and they worked fine with the CCI noise blanks. I think those nail gun blanks some of you are using may be a heavier construction. That may make them harder to press in, I don't know. My current "technology" is an L bit that I ground down a pilot of .224" so I can drill and cut the step in one process. Haven't tried it yet tho.
kootne

[ndnchf]

Kootne - when I drilled mine I started with a #2 and then went to a #1. What I need is a #1.5! There are quite a few different .22 reamers available, but this one with a base diameter of .2242" seams just about right.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/408...le-freeland-mg

This would cut the hole to just the right size and the rim recess all at one time. Its a little pricey, but worthwhile if I really want to make gas tight cases.

[Chev. William]

tomsp8 - My mistake, I thought you had bought pre-made .32 cases. Nice work making them with what you have. Your cases probably seal better than mine with that tight fit of the .22 case. If the crowning job helps this #2 RRB to shoot decent I will be very happy (hope to find out that tomorrow). The 20 .32 XL cases I made were kind of a trial. If the rifle shoots well enough to justify the effort to make more (and better) cases, I have another fifty 327 Federal Magnum cases to make .32 XL with. Since their doesn't seem to be comercially available .224" - .225" drill bit or reamer, I will probably order a.22 match reamer (about $43 from Midway) to make better fitting cases.

Have you considered custom sharpening an available reamer down to the size you want for the .22blanks?

Also any Chamber reamer is going cut the hole oversize so cases will drop in, not press in.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[kootne]

Have you considered custom sharpening an available reamer down to the size you want for the .22blanks?

Also any Chamber reamer is going cut the hole oversize so cases will drop in, not press in.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

That is sort of what I did, the "L" bit is .290" (cuts the rim step), the foward portion of the bit I ground down to .224 for drilling the section that needs to be a press fit. It is probably best described as a counter boring drill bit. Been busy on some other projects and haven't got it tried out yet. I have high hopes, we will see.
kootne

[w30wcf]

tomsp8,
Nice work. Thank you for the explanation of your process. I also used a 7/32" drill and used some fine emery cloth to open the hole to the proper diameter. I am thinking of getting the .224" reamer as noted below.

I am thinking that perhaps the heat may have set off the primer when you tried using the cut off wheel(?). I took a .32 bullet and drilled a .227" hole through the center. I place a case in that and chuck it in a 1/2" power drill and turn it on. The dremel cut off wheel takes about 2-3 seconds to cut the crimp end off. So far, no primers have fired. I have been emptying the powder first but then decided to try it without removing the powder. Works great.......but wear safety glasses...

kootne,
The Number 3 would be the easiest way to go but I'll have to see how the accuracy is between that and the 2.2/Titegroup. I had thought about making a bushing 1/2" or so long to fit the i.d. of the case with a .224" hole through the center. The reduced case capacity might also mean that the Number 2 might be enough to get the velocity to 900 f.p.s.

ndnchf,
MSC has a .224" reamer
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/02022408

They also offer .223 & .225.

w30wcf

[Chev. William]

Everybody:
Please forgive the of subject post but I thought to share photos of my Stevens 1915 Action mocked up with a mostly adapted used butt stock and a Stevens 1894 Barrel in .32 Long:



There is presently no firing pin in the action and the barrel is not head spaced nor fitted to the action.
Below the mockup on the left is my just picked up Stevens "44" receiver and on the right are two Links that I purchased as part of a lot of miscellaneous 'Stevens Favorite' parts. I believe they MAY be Model 44 Links, the dark one on the left is typical fo the drawing in Frank de Haas Book and the one on the right seems to have the 'clump' that works with a spring and plunger inside the Lever to hold the action closed in spite of looseness in the pins or pivots.

The next two photos are progressive closeups of the details:





Thank you for looking, now back to the subject of this thread:

W30wcf,
I feel you may have an interesting project matching the internal contour of the case, with its taper and radius between side wall and web, all of which vary between manufacturers. Perhaps a filled epoxy casting slip fitted into the case would work (Locktite to hold in case or a cannulure in the case wall)?
Something like the 'base wad' of a shotgun shell.

Careful consideration is needed for this idea. A 'filler' following the bullet partway down the barrel would not make for a happy day. A step discontinuity in the wall thickness might reduce the case life and its ability to seal the chamber.

I am sure you will come up with a useful solution to this 'problem'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[NorthCoastBigBore]

....
NCBB - welcome aboard! Always glad to have another participant in this project. Did you modify your .32 short cases for the .27 Ramsets? I modifed mine as described earlier. But I now prefer using cases modified for the .22 blanks because it leave a stronger .32 rim. Its basically the same procedure to modify for either .22 or .27 cal blanks, just different size drill bits. Although for the .22 blank cases, I also make a recess in the .32 rim for the firing pin. Could you expound on your Trail Boss load and experiences? I'm starting to experiment with it too.

Thank you! I did indeed modify for the .27; and I wholeheartedly agree that it leaves little rim support. I have to say this is THE most comprehensive thread I've yet read on this subject, you've canvassed a lot of options that don't show up in other (online) sources.

I have to say I think I'll give the .22 blank approach a try; in a revolver the .27 seemed to make sense before I read this thread (no need to index and assuming at the time a .22 wouldn't catch the firing pin) but the .22 is looking like a winner after all. Notching the rim should give more flexibility in indexing anyway, compared to an offset blank set-up....looking forward to trying it out with .22.

I so far cannot find .32 Long Colt brass up here in any quantity (ITAR prevents export from the US into Canada without expensive import fees) so I have to stick with the SC for now; my Trail Boss loads in the SC with a heeled (95 grain) cast boolit runs 1.7-1.8. So far, so good. Quiet and accurate. The sights on my Stevens need some fixin' (rear leaf is a folder that won't stay up and I haven't yet gotten around to fixing that) so group size seems pretty decent using the heeled bullets, usually running 1-2" at 25 yards. Bore is not great and my eyesight ain't either so I suggest it represents good potential to do better.

Frankly I was surprised at how much louder and more muzzle jump I experience using the green Ramset with a round ball, vs. the Trail Boss and a boolit.

I'd toss up some photos but it wouldn't add anything to the conversation, you folks have 'er covered.

Great info here, keep it coming.

[ndnchf]

Range Report - I had a very interesting day at the range. While there was still snow on the ground, it warmed up nicely.

Rifle - #2 Remington Rolling Block, 32 Extra Long rimfire, Temp 50F, no wind.




First load - .32 XL cases with 2.9gr. of Trail Boss primed with an emptied .22 short case filled with 1.0gr of 4F Elephant BP, Lyman 299153 lubed with Lee Alox. I fired 10 shots with an average velocity of 1077 fps and an ES of 33 fps. This load sounded good, had good ignition and most cases extracted easily (even though I polished the chamber, it is still a little rough). Accuracy was very good.



Second load - .32 XL cases with 6.0gr. of Hercules 2400 primed with an emptied .22 short case filled with .5gr of 4F Elephant BP, Accurate 31-090S bullet lubed with Lee Alox. I fired 9 shots with an average velocity of 1023 fps and an ES of 63 fps. This load had twice the velocity spread of the previous load, and I could hear a difference in the low speed shots, one still seemed to have a slight delay. The higher velocity shots ignited quicker and sounded better. I only used .5gr of 4F BP in this load vs. 1.0 gr of 4F BP in the Trail Boss load. I think this needs a full 1.0gr of 4F or more for reliable ignition with the 2400. All cases extracted ok, but the slower round seemed harder to extract, not sure why. Could just be a difference in cases.

Third load - .32 Long Colt. .78” length cases loaded with green .27 cal Ramset blanks only, no additional powder, Lyman 299153 bullet lubed with Lee Alox. I had 6 of these for an average velocity of 987 fps. But had an ES of 101 fps. These rounds had a sharper sound than the previous loads and I could tell a difference in the sound of the slow vs. faster ones. These extracted ok, but were a little stiff. Accuracy was not as good.

Forth load - .32 Long Colt, .935” length case loaded with a green .22 Duo-Fast blank only, no additional powder, Lyman 299153 bullet lubed with Lee Alox. I only had one of these rounds and it clocked at 988 fps., extraction was good and accuracy was excellent

Accuracy – I was not really shooting for accuracy today. I was more interested in seeing how these loads ignited, sounded and their velocity data. But that being said, I was very interested to see if my crowning job made an improvement. You may recall that before re-crowning I got 4” -5’ groups at 25 yards, pretty poor.



Today, I had the target set up at about 8 yards, aligned with the chronograph. I’m very pleased to say that the re-crowing seems to have made a big improvement. The first load (2.9gr of Trail Boss and the Lyman 299153 bullet) was the best, and shot 9 of 10 rounds into a little over ¾”, with the troublemaker going to the right a little, making a 10 shot group of under 1.25”.



So overall a very educational and satisfying day!

[kootne]

I also did a little testing today altho not to the extent ndnchf went to. I finally found some .22 nail gun blanks to compare to my .22 noise blanks. These are blanks with original charge only, no powder was added or dumped. I don't have a chrono, these are penetration tests in dried pine 2x6 pieces screwed together. Measured with dial caliper to base of imbedded bullet. These loads are in modified R-P .32 S&W brass (swaged to .320", trimmed to .785"), bullet is Jack's Lyman 299153, SPG lube.

1 .27 Ramset level 3 (green) 4.585"
2 .22 Remington level 3 (green) 2.378"
3 .22 CCI short noise blanks 2.411"
4 (for reference) .22 LR CCI SV fired in 24" Mossberg 2.418"
5 (more reference) .32 ACP fired in chamber adapter in 24" Model 70 '06 4.455''. This was a factory 71 gr fmj load.

Puzzling, ndnchf's .22 & .27 blank only loads seem very similar to mine. His are within 1 fps and yet my .22 load only gave about 1/2 the penetration of my .27 load. The wood I used seemed very uniform with no knots.
For me, I think next I need to run some more accuracy tests, maybe at 50 yards. I really like the simplicity of the blank only loads if they will shoot accurately.
kootne

[Chev. William]

Thank you! I did indeed modify for the .27; and I wholeheartedly agree that it leaves little rim support. I have to say this is THE most comprehensive thread I've yet read on this subject, you've canvassed a lot of options that don't show up in other (online) sources.

I have to say I think I'll give the .22 blank approach a try; in a revolver the .27 seemed to make sense before I read this thread (no need to index and assuming at the time a .22 wouldn't catch the firing pin) but the .22 is looking like a winner after all. Notching the rim should give more flexibility in indexing anyway, compared to an offset blank set-up....looking forward to trying it out with .22.

I so far cannot find .32 Long Colt brass up here in any quantity (ITAR prevents export from the US into Canada without expensive import fees) so I have to stick with the SC for now; my Trail Boss loads in the SC with a heeled (95 grain) cast boolit runs 1.7-1.8. So far, so good. Quiet and accurate. The sights on my Stevens need some fixin' (rear leaf is a folder that won't stay up and I haven't yet gotten around to fixing that) so group size seems pretty decent using the heeled bullets, usually running 1-2" at 25 yards. Bore is not great and my eyesight ain't either so I suggest it represents good potential to do better.

Frankly I was surprised at how much louder and more muzzle jump I experience using the green Ramset with a round ball, vs. the Trail Boss and a boolit.

I'd toss up some photos but it wouldn't add anything to the conversation, you folks have 'er covered.

Great info here, keep it coming.

Can you buy .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum, or .327 Federal Magnum Brass in British Columbia? The all can be reformed to the correct body diameter with some 'creative use of dies' to get from .337" body diameter down to .318". Note that you need to run the case all the way into the die, up to the rim, then get rid of the 'roll' of displaced brass just above the rim.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[w30wcf]

kootne,
Thank you for the report. Since pointed bullets tend to not always go point on during penetration, I would strongly suspect that the reason for the less penetration for the .22 level green is that the bullet has likely turned partially sideways....assuming the velocity is similar to the .27 case. Flat pointed bullets, on the other hand, tend to stay more point on.

ndnchf,
Thank you for the report. Beautiful day! Glad to see that your recrown efforts have enhanced accuracy. Looks like the .27 and .22 green have pretty much the same ballistic strength but a bit disappointing with the ES of 101. Perhaps the long jump to the rifling was a factor. As I recall, mine was about 1/2 that with the .22 Duo-Fast....but that was over 5 rounds.... Nice to see that the Trail Boss / 1 gr b.p. worked well.

Chev. William,
By keeping the length of bushing just behind the case mouth of the blank, the back pressure would keep it in place. A case cannelure above the bushing would be additional insurance. Nice Pic! Interesting project!

w30wcf

[NorthCoastBigBore]

Can you buy .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum, or .327 Federal Magnum Brass in British Columbia? The all can be reformed to the correct body diameter with some 'creative use of dies' to get from .337" body diameter down to .318". Note that you need to run the case all the way into the die, up to the rim, then get rid of the 'roll' of displaced brass just above the rim.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

Thank you - it does open up some possibilities. Unfortunately also uncommon though but .32 S&W long shows up from time to time. For whatever nonsensical reason, .32 caliber pistols are classified as "prohibited" up here (with specific exceptions) so although not impossible to find, are not stocked by many. .32 rimfire, in a pre-1898 built handgun, are "antique" and legal to own. Not many rifles show up (here) in the pistol-caliber .32's so dealers understandably don't see a value in stocking the brass (or ammo).

I was reading earlier in this thread on reforming these other calibers, so I will be looking for 'em for sure.

[NorthCoastBigBore]

Range Report - I had a very interesting day at the range. While there was still snow on the ground, it warmed up nicely.

....
Accuracy – I was not really shooting for accuracy today. I was more interested in seeing how these loads ignited, sounded and their velocity data. But that being said, I was very interested to see if my crowning job made an improvement. You may recall that before re-crowning I got 4” -5’ groups at 25 yards, pretty poor.



Today, I had the target set up at about 8 yards, aligned with the chronograph. I’m very pleased to say that the re-crowing seems to have made a big improvement. The first load (2.9gr of Trail Boss and the Lyman 299153 bullet) was the best, and shot 9 of 10 rounds into a little over ¾”, with the troublemaker going to the right a little, making a 10 shot group of under 1.25”.

So overall a very educational and satisfying day!

Very impressive change in accuracy indeed! I've got to re-read this thread now and see about changing my set up, hopefully have some time this weekend.

[ndnchf]

NCBB - Another case option is the .25-20 single shot (not to be confused with the .25-20WCF). The nice thing about this is the head diameter is correct already. I don't know if it would be easier to obtain up your way, but it is a rifle cartridge, not pistol. It is currently being made by CAPTECH and is available unformed and in stock at Buffalo Arms.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/25_20_Sin....aspx?CAT=3834

I've been eyeing these to make .32XL cases, but it would work just fine for any of the shorter versions too.

Chev - you did a great job of consolidating the data the other day. Are you going to continue to add to that and post periodic updates? That would be a great help to all of us I think. I wish we could create some kind of online loading notes file of some sort to capture all this good info, rather than have to go back through the entire thread looking for bits and pieces.

[ndnchf]

Ok - trying catch up on a few comments.

I found that removing both the .22 Duo-Fast and .27 cal Ramset blanks after firing took a punch and hammer. But the fired .22 shorts with either TB or 2400 pushed out by hand.

My #2 RRB barrel is 26" long, so consider that in the velocity comparisons.

Kootne - can you post a photo of your "L" bit? I assume in your earlier post that load #2 was suppose to read .22 Ramset, not .22 Remington? FWIW, I was using a .22 Duo-Fast, so there maybe some difference between the two.

w30wcf - Thanks for the .224" reamer link, I forgot to look there. You may be right about the jump to the rifling effecting the velocity spread. Next time, I'll load some in the .32XL cases.

[Chev. William]

NCBB - Another case option is the .25-20 single shot (not to be confused with the .25-20WCF). The nice thing about this is the head diameter is correct already. I don't know if it would be easier to obtain up your way, but it is a rifle cartridge, not pistol. It is currently being made by CAPTECH and is available unformed and in stock at Buffalo Arms.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/25_20_Sin....aspx?CAT=3834

I've been eyeing these to make .32XL cases, but it would work just fine for any of the shorter versions too.

Chev - you did a great job of consolidating the data the other day. Are you going to continue to add to that and post periodic updates? That would be a great help to all of us I think. I wish we could create some kind of online loading notes file of some sort to capture all this good info, rather than have to go back through the entire thread looking for bits and pieces.

Ndnchf,
Yes I will be 'lurking' and periodically try to make summary posts of consolidated results, but I find my attempts to get the Load Information (as opposed to the Cartridge Information) entered into "AmmoGuide Interactive" database is thwarted by it Not Being My Own Data, they want Members to submit Their Own Load Data not that copied from others work posted elsewhere due to the 'copyright' problems. If the originator of the load data is a member of "AmmoGuide Interactive" they may submit the load information to the web site for inclusion with the Cartridge Data, which currently include the .32 RF family and the .32 Colt pair some with historical notes that include the original BP production loadings. That is the best I have been able to do to date as I do not yet have a firearm to shoot them in myself, so I cannot submit first hand load information yet.

The Wolfe Publishing "LoadData" site might also entertain posting if supplied by a first person developer of the loads.

NCBB,
I was not thinking of the Canadian law problems with specific use cartridges. my apologies for that oversight. perhaps ndnchf suggestion of the 25-20SS Brass will "pass Muster"with your government authorities and be 'importable via mail order'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William