1874 Deluxe Target Rifle

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Will they shoot 405s ok?

I don't have a 405 gn mould but I do have a 420gn Henley & Gibbs that is copied by Lyman, except the H&G has one extra grease groove. It is very accurate in both the Sharps and my Springfield trapdoor.

Another boolit worth considering is the Lyman "Mathews" design tapered boolit. This design sits in the throat and allows a full 75gns of FFG to be loaded.

[shovel80]

One Minute of angle= 1 inch at 100 yards at any barrel length...I believe..

Terry....

[montana_charlie]

One Minute of angle= 1 inch at 100 yards at any barrel length...I believe..

Your belief is wrong (technically), but I know why you have it.

1 MOA equals 1 MOA at any range, from any barrel, and 1 inch equals 1 inch all of the time.
But, at one hundred yards 1 MOA equals 1.047 inches. As the range (or angle change) increases, the difference between MOA and Inches gets more pronounced.

As for barrel length, changing the (say) elevation on a rear sight by a certain amount will cause a given change in upward angle of the bore.
If the barrel is shorter, the angle change will be greater.

For example, using a distant object for an aiming point, raise the sight on your 24-inch barreled rifle a tenth of an inch
Notice how much change in angle occurs in the barrel ... not very much.
Now raise the rear sight a tenth on your six-inch barreled revolver.
The change in angle is much more noticeable.

The one tenth change on your rifle may have shifted impact up by 10 inches at one hundred. But the same one tenth on the revolver would give an angle increase equal to forty inches at one hundred (which would be 38.20 MOA).

Any angle change will result in movement of the bullet's impact point, which can be expressed in 'inches at (so many) yards' or in 'Minutes Of Arc'. But they are not the same 'numbers'.

CM

[shovel80]

Your absolutely correct Charlie...1 min of angle does = 1.047...but, Most of us just consider 1 min. of angle to = 1 inch at 100 yards and it works out pretty darn good...

Terry

['74 sharps]

Sharps '74's are like a great potato chip...one is never enough. Just received my second, a Long Range, replaced the rear sight with a Lee Shaver (outstanding quality - obviously designed by a shooter); however, will not be out with it for a few days. My other has the Leatherwood Malcolm long scope. Great optics, but I replaced the screws with socket cap heads and they will not loosen under recoil and are easy to adjust.

[Longwood]

Your belief is wrong (technically), but I know why you have it.

1 MOA equals 1 MOA at any range, from any barrel, and 1 inch equals 1 inch all of the time.
But, at one hundred yards 1 MOA equals 1.047 inches. As the range (or angle change) increases, the difference between MOA and Inches gets more pronounced.

As for barrel length, changing the (say) elevation on a rear sight by a certain amount will cause a given change in upward angle of the bore.
If the barrel is shorter, the angle change will be greater.

For example, using a distant object for an aiming point, raise the sight on your 24-inch barreled rifle a tenth of an inch
Notice how much change in angle occurs in the barrel ... not very much.
Now raise the rear sight a tenth on your six-inch barreled revolver.
The change in angle is much more noticeable.

The one tenth change on your rifle may have shifted impact up by 10 inches at one hundred. But the same one tenth on the revolver would give an angle increase equal to forty inches at one hundred (which would be 38.20 MOA).

Any angle change will result in movement of the bullet's impact point, which can be expressed in 'inches at (so many) yards' or in 'Minutes Of Arc'. But they are not the same 'numbers'.

CM

Now,,, I am really confused.
I always thought the angle was the center line of the bore from the breach of the rifle to the 100 yard target. And one MOA was one inch regardless of barrel length sight movement etc.

Where did the 1.047 come from?
Sounds like MOA means something entirely different than what I always though it did.
Is it High Tech Target Shooter Mumbo Jumbo or should I just go on with thinking one MOA is one inch at 100 yards?

[PanaDP]

Now,,, I am really confused.
I always thought the angle was the center line of the bore from the breach of the rifle to the 100 yard target. And one MOA was one inch regardless of barrel length sight movement etc.

Where did the 1.047 come from?
Sounds like MOA means something entirely different than what I always though it did.
Is it High Tech Target Shooter Mumbo Jumbo or should I just go on with thinking one MOA is one inch at 100 yards?

It's really just coincidence that 1MOA at 100 yards is very, very close to 1".

One minute of angle is an angular measure equal to 1/60 of 1 degree. Being angular, it's useful at all distances without conversion or additional information whereas a measure like 1" is only useful if you know the distance as well (a 7" group is good at 1000yds, not so good at 100yds).


Here's the math:

Imagine the shooter is at the center of a circle and the target is tangent to that circle out at 100yds. The circle with a radius of 100yds has a circumference of 628.39yds (2pi*100yds). Converting this into inches we get 22,622.04 inches.

Divide by 360 to get a number of inches subtended by one degree at 100yds: 62.839"

Divide that by 60 to get the number of inches subtended by one minute of one angle at 100 yards: 1.047"

[Longwood]

It's really just coincidence that 1MOA at 100 yards is very, very close to 1".

One minute of angle is an angular measure equal to 1/60 of 1 degree. Being angular, it's useful at all distances without conversion or additional information whereas a measure like 1" is only useful if you know the distance as well (a 7" group is good at 1000yds, not so good at 100yds).


Here's the math:

Imagine the shooter is at the center of a circle and the target is tangent to that circle out at 100yds. The circle with a radius of 100yds has a circumference of 628.39yds (2pi*100yds). Converting this into inches we get 22,622.04 inches.

Divide by 360 to get a number of inches subtended by one degree at 100yds: 62.839"

Divide that by 60 to get the number of inches subtended by one minute of one angle at 100 yards: 1.047"

AhHa!
Math!
That would explain why I did not understand it.
Thanks for the new knowledge.

[shovel80]

One inch per hundred yards works fine for most of us, but, if your gonna shoot a rocket too the moon...well, that's another story!..

Terry

[montana_charlie]

One inch per hundred yards works fine for most of us,

It works fine for most of us (me included) because we really don't care give a rip about minutes of angle. Most of us look a the group on a target and say, "Oh! I need to move three inches left and two inches up." Then we figure out how much to change the sight based on how far away the target is.

But, for those who do use minutes of angle for making sight changes, the sight radius on a 30-inch barreled Sharps rifle will get movements in that type of increment if using a tang sight calibrated in one hundreths of an inch.

THAT was the 'message' which started this whole donnybrook.

I'll pass on one other little tidbit, just to make you hate me more...
When you change the sight to raise impact an inch at a hundred, we (now) know that is also 'almost' 1 MOA.

We also know that the same adjustment will cause ten times as much impact change at 1000 yards.

So, we would call that "ten inches at 1000".

But the guy who uses MOA for his calculations would look at his 1000 yard result of 10.47 inches in impact movement, and STILL call it a change of 1 MOA.

CM

[shovel80]

Nobody Hates you Charlie!!!..and I Enjoy Reading All your posts !!

Thanks, Terry

[bigted]

SPEAK FOR YOUR SELF SHOVEL.......LOL hey charlie!