Limitations of the Lee Classic Loader

[SquirrelHollow]

Not being able to full length resize your brass isn't a limitation.

It absolutely IS.

Tell a guy with 2 different .30-06s or .30-30s, and a Lee Loader, that the inability to FL size is not a limitation, and see what they tell you. Odds are that anything fired in one of those is not going to chamber in the other.
...Or the guy with 12 ga shotguns manufactured in 1993 and 1929. Anything fired in the newer shotgun will not chamber in the older shotgun, due to the bases being too large. (Standards became very loose for the 12 ga, over time, due to crappier and crappier plastic hulls being made -- and the Lee Loaders for shotguns don't resize at all)

There are ways of getting around it, but it adds time and energy to the process.
For example, you can label your ammo for the specific firearm it came from.

But... what happens if circumstances push you to slowly start shooting all of your brass from the "tight" chamber in the "loose" chamber, and you end up with nothing left to reload for the "tight" one? -You're hosed, and have to buy more brass.

What happens when you and a friend head out to break a few clays with your shotguns, and he ends up firing 3 boxes of shells in his shotgun, only to find out that nothing fired in his gun will chamber in any of yours? -You're now the not-so-proud owner of 3 boxes of useless hulls.


Not being able to full-length size is not the end of the world, but it is a limitation that comes with the Lee Loaders. It should be considered before the purchase.

For a man with multiple handguns, rifles, or shot guns (especially) in the same chambering, the Lee Loader can be a very poor choice.

[Texantothecore]

If you get into the situation in which you have a few different guns in the same caliber, just resize them on your press and go on down the road.

It is not an issue.

[303british.com]

It absolutely IS.

Tell a guy with 2 different .30-06s or .30-30s, and a Lee Loader, that the inability to FL size is not a limitation, and see what they tell you...

Not being able to full-length size is not the end of the world, but it is a limitation that comes with the Lee Loaders. It should be considered before the purchase.

For a man with multiple handguns, rifles, or shot guns (especially) in the same chambering, the Lee Loader can be a very poor choice.

Sorry, but they are hardly a limitation. I am one of those persons who owns a number of rifles chambered for the same cartridge. The method and tools I use when reloading different 308s, 303s, 222s, 44s etc. are dependent on the purpose - hunting, target shooting, plinking, training, etc. I use different tools to accomplish this. LLs are one of those tools.

Every time I pick up a new gun, I buy a Redding body die for when the brass needs to be squeezed back. I also have a Lee nutcracker so that I can take selected equipment with me to the range or out hunting. These are in addition to my bench setup at home. In close to 40 years of using them, they have never been inconvenient or a limitation.

Your post made me count my LLs. I have 15. Some people have more. If they were a limitation, they would have gone the way of the do-do years ago.

LLs are cheaper alternatives to conventional NS die sets if money is a concern, are portable, compact and have an easier learning curve.

They are another tool in the reloader's arsenal, not a limitation.

[SquirrelHollow]

Sorry, but they are hardly a limitation. I am one of those persons who owns a number of rifles chambered for the same cartridge. The method and tools I use when reloading different 308s, 303s, 222s, 44s etc. are dependent on the purpose - hunting, target shooting, plinking, training, etc. I use different tools to accomplish this. LLs are one of those tools.

Every time I pick up a new gun, I buy a Redding body die for when the brass needs to be squeezed back. I also have a Lee nutcracker so that I can take selected equipment with me to the range or out hunting. These are in addition to my bench setup at home. In close to 40 years of using them, they have never been inconvenient or a limitation.

Your post made me count my LLs. I have 15. Some people have more. If they were a limitation, they would have gone the way of the do-do years ago.

LLs are cheaper alternatives to conventional NS die sets if money is a concern, are portable, compact and have an easier learning curve.

They are another tool in the reloader's arsenal, not a limitation.

You're telling a guy that wants ONLY the Lee Loader that the lack of FL sizing capability is not a limitation; then turning around and saying you keep Redding body dies on hand to size your cases for use with your Lee Loaders.

Don't you see the contradiction?

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just trying to make sure new reloaders reading this thread understand that not being able to FL size can have its drawbacks.
(And many of the people offering advice on the matter tend to overlook things like keeping a reloading press and body die on hand, when using a Lee Loader...)


They are not another tool in the reloader's arsenal, if they are the ONLY tool. (The very situation this thread is supposed to be addressing.)

If they were a limitation, they would have gone the way of the do-do years ago.

You could say the same thing about bicycles, black powder, lead-acid batteries, single-shot rifles, single-action revolvers, and even toilet paper (we have auto-washing toilets, after all). Every one of those things has significant drawbacks, when compared to similar concepts or the technology that replaced it. Yet, every one of those is still quite popular, even with the limitations inherent to the idea.

Lee Loaders are still available because curious newbies see them as a great way to start reloading for a minuscule investment; not because they don't have any limitations.

[303british.com]

You're telling a guy that wants ONLY the Lee Loader that the lack of FL sizing capability is not a limitation; then turning around and saying you keep Redding body dies on hand to size your cases for use with your Lee Loaders.

Don't you see the contradiction?

No. That's where he will start, as have many others before him. He doesn't ONLY want a LL. He said that he does not anticipate doing much at the start. His exact words were,

"Other than speed, what are the limitations to the Lee loaders? Forgive me if this old ground, but I am new to reloading and don't plan on doing a lot (at least not yet). The price on the Lee loaders is certainly attractive at less than a set of dies..."

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just trying to make sure new reloaders reading this thread understand that not being able to FL size can have its drawbacks.
(And many of the people offering advice on the matter tend to overlook things like keeping a reloading press and body die on hand, when using a Lee Loader...)

Oh, I see. You're being the voice of reason. Thanks for keeping us on the straight and narrow.

Lee Loaders are still available because curious newbies see them as a great way to start reloading for a minuscule investment; not because they don't have any limitations.

Precisely. Thanks for clearing that up for us. Most of us were confused.

[Sonnypie]

A Lee Loader is not a part of my bug out plan.

But...
If one was to have to bug out, and a method to assemble ammunition was part of the bag...
A boxed Lee Loader would be much easier to toss in a pack than to unbolt your fancy press and it's stuff.

Or to take as barter...

[Texantothecore]

Not everyone who uses a Lee Classic Loader is a newbie. I am a long time reloader as well as a newbie caster. I have two different presses in addition to the Lee Loader but I use the Lee Loader exclusively now because it will produces consistently competitive rounds. 10 rounds of 405 grn .45-70 through the same hole at 100 yards is an example, fairly recent.

It is standard practice with Lee Loader to use different boxes of ammo for different rifles. Not a big deal. Some also use different Lee Loaders of the same caliber for different rifles as the seating for the bullet may be different for each rifle.

As far as speed goes, I can load at about the same rate per hour as my single stage press and the rounds are excellent. It is easy to do and the secret to loading quickly is to place your tools in the order used, in the same spot everytime. It becomes quite quick.

[303british.com]

You have a bug out plan? Pack plenty of 7.62x39mm, clean underwear and a toothbrush.

[Texantothecore]

The Lee Loader is the heart of my bug out bag.

[Sonnypie]

You have a bug out plan? Pack plenty of 7.62x39mm, clean underwear and a toothbrush.

I have a bug in plan.
And 22 rifles are a part of that.
A head shot with a 22 will stop most living things. And I can transport a huge amount of ammo on my person for these "little" pill launchers.

But you *really* need to watch this.

[303british.com]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM7_znfqazw

[Reload3006]

as long as it goes bang its good. Lee classic loader is a great tool for its intended purpose. But it does have its limitations. Not knocking it at all but neck sizing only is A problem if its one you don't know about ahead of time. Also its a problem for semi autos lever actions and pump action rifles. The shot gun loaders will make a shell that goes bang. If you are using bolt action rifle they make superb ammo several national matches have been won with ammo loaded in the lee classic. Still For not that much more money you can get the Lee starter kits and have a real setup. Whack a mole dies are ok I have them but don't use them anymore they are a lot of extra work with a limited application. But they are superb at what they do.

[W.R.Buchanan]

sonny: That was very informative piece, and I have been seeing this kind of thing more and more.

We are having a war winding down and all of those Ex Govt Employees are going to be dropped into this society with no salableskills other than warrior/hunter killer types of jobs.

I see a large uptake of offensive military groups being formed with these highly trained people, and I would just bet they will be able to do whatever tasks they are assigned with impunity, due to the covert nature of Homeland Security and other govt agencies.

The only way to end this stuff is to have a President who is willing to clean out the govt and purge all of this clandastine barf out... right after they take out Geo Soros and half of Hollywood and a few others that need to go too.

With respect to the OP's question: I think everyone should learn how to Reload on a Lee Loader.

It establishes the sequence of events in the simplest way possible, and that sequence of events will be the basis of your reloading hobby for the rest of your life.

Plus if you don't want to get in any deeper you still can make ammo that is as good as anything you can make with other tools. If you want to get out, they also have good resale value.

Sounds like a win win to me!

Randy

[vacek]

Actually it is quite easy to go out on Ebay and get a full length size whackamo die that was made by Ideal into the 1960's; or even better, one that was made by LE Wilson. I have a lot of these in about every caliber because they are fun to collect. Regardless they are about the same size as a Lee classic neck sizing die, but when you need to full length resize for all of the above written reasons you get out one of these babies. They work really well. My bug out bag contains Lee Loaders for .308 and 9mm. I have a Wilson full length resize die for the 308 and an old Ideal for the 9mm. The work awesome and I was really surprised on how actual littl force via my plastic hammer it took. Just a thought for the naysayers.

[Wayne Smith]

To specifically answer your question about using Lee Loader loaded ammo in two different rifles, you will only know when you try. I started loading ammo with a Lee Loader and was loading for two different 30-30's and they were so close that we had no problem using ammo loaded with each. This is probably unusual. The other option is to keep the brass sorted - your Dad's brass separate from yours. Then you have no problem. Load his brass for his rifle, your brass for yours, and as long as you don't confuse the two both rifles will shoot as long as you and your Dad want them to with nothing more than the Lee Loader wackum style.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I also started with a Lee Loader almost 40 years ago. I have a few sets and generally buy them when I see them cheap. They make Grade A ammo if you follow the instructions. I saw a very competitive guy at a 500ys fly shoot once loading between shots with a Lee Loader. He didn't win the shoot, but he was way up there. Kicked my a$$ big time.

In Australia, SIMplex make a fls vice die. When yo need to fls, you lube the case, put them in a vice and close it, then take it out, place it on the thingo that comes with it and give it a tap with a hammer. Bingo, one FLS'd case ready to go. There must be someone in the States that make somethign similar.

I seem to remember that short fat cases like the 45 ACP are a bear to reload with the Lee Loader. I loaded the 44MAg when I wa sin my early 20s with good results and I was challenged mechanically, let me tell you!

Go buy one, whole lot of fun for not much money.

[mdi]

Seems to be differing opinions on neck sizing only. My question is, if one has two or more guns in the same caliber, how much intelligence does it take to keep the fired brass/new ammo separate? FWIW (and not dealing with neck sizing but different guns/same cartridge) I have 5, .44 magnums and each has their favorite load, and I have no problems keeping the ammo for each individual .44 Magnun sepatate...

[Four Fingers of Death]

Here is a link to Western Firearms in Sydney (in the suburb of Beverly Hills, no less, lol!). They specialise in reloading dies and equipment. They call it die-a-rama. Good guys and they export worldwide.

This is the Simplex FLS Vice die I mentioned earler. Does anybody in the States make anything like this?

http://westernfirearms.com.au/reload...ie-p-2094.html

I learnt a trick off another Aussie and now in addition to buying a set of deluxe Lee dies, I also buy a set of Lee RGB dies so that the FLS die can be trimmed to make a cheapo body die! Having a spare bullet seating die is handy as well.

A frugal shooter could use a set of these to make a vice die, all you need is a rod/punch to remove the case, but the punch in your Lee Loader would do the trick.

Different coloured sharpies are good for marking different loads. I lay four or five down on a flat surface and roll them back and forwards like I was using a lube pad, while I hold the point of the sharpie in teh edge of the primer pocket.

[Texantothecore]

To specifically answer your question about using Lee Loader loaded ammo in two different rifles, you will only know when you try. I started loading ammo with a Lee Loader and was loading for two different 30-30's and they were so close that we had no problem using ammo loaded with each. This is probably unusual. The other option is to keep the brass sorted - your Dad's brass separate from yours. Then you have no problem. Load his brass for his rifle, your brass for yours, and as long as you don't confuse the two both rifles will shoot as long as you and your Dad want them to with nothing more than the Lee Loader wackum style.

With the accuracy of machining these days it is probably less of a problem than in the past.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you take the expander plug out of a regular FL sizing die you can operate it in a vise or a small arbor press.

You can also use that small arbor press with the regular Lee Loader die in place of the hammer.

If you look at Wilson benchrest dies they are nothing more than a very accurate and more expensive Lee Loaders.

Many of the benchrest guys at my club here in Ojai use the Wilson dies and load at the bench. We have 2,,, 600 yard Worlds Record holders.

I think the limit of the Lee loader is right at 100% perfection. Everything I have seen with regard to them supports this theory. You can make very good ammunition with a Lee Loader, just as you can make really good ammo with a Lyman 310 Tong Tool.

Remember that 100 years ago all reloaded ammo was made with hand tools. Presses and other tools only came along to make the process go faster.

There is only two variables in play here. How the neck is sized, and is the bullet seated strait.

I have to make an indicator stand so I can check concentricity of loaded rounds. After that I will compare some Lee Loader rounds with some made with My Lee Hand Press and RCBS Comp dies, and then a regular press.

I just bet everything is in the same ball park.

Randy