Cases for Obsolete Chamberings

[versifier]

I have been driving myself to distraction trying to round up cases for the 6.5x53 Mannlicher-Schoenaur. One of our members generously sent me a few that he had kicking around, and I have been able to shoot it enough to realize that the rifle is a tack driver. Though from the outside, it looks to have been on the losing end of more than one war, I think it will make a nice deer rifle and really want to scrounge up more brass for it. All supplies appear to have dried up completely, at least I have been unable to come up with any in a year of searching, except for collectors samples for $3+ per round.
Sooooo, I guess it's time to do it the hard way. I have ordered the Manual of Cartridge Conversions, but wanted some feedback in the mean time. I think I can make them from 220Swift cases by turning down the rim, fl sizing, trimming, and fireforming. Does this seem like a workable solution, or is there a fly in the ointment I'm not seeing?

[Dye]

versifier
I just look it up, Do you have a 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenaur. If you do you are rght on except need to cut a extracture grove.
Becarefull Dye

[Pepe Ray]

The 6.5x54 MS is identical to the 6.5x53 Carc but for 1mm in l.
WHOOPS-- Guess we have a communication problem here.--
Could you possibly mean ( 6.5x53R Mann,- Dutch & Romanian)?
If so i'll back up and take a breath.
Pepe Ray

[45 2.1]

I have been driving myself to distraction trying to round up cases for the 6.5x53 Mannlicher-Schoenaur. One of our members generously sent me a few that he had kicking around, and I have been able to shoot it enough to realize that the rifle is a tack driver. Though from the outside, it looks to have been on the losing end of more than one war, I think it will make a nice deer rifle and really want to scrounge up more brass for it. All supplies appear to have dried up completely, at least I have been unable to come up with any in a year of searching, except for collectors samples for $3+ per round.
Sooooo, I guess it's time to do it the hard way. I have ordered the Manual of Cartridge Conversions, but wanted some feedback in the mean time. I think I can make them from 220Swift cases by turning down the rim, fl sizing, trimming, and fireforming. Does this seem like a workable solution, or is there a fly in the ointment I'm not seeing?

Do you have a lathe or access to one? If so there is an easy solution useing military 30-06 cases. I lathe turn the outside straight from head forward until it doesn't cut useing Donnelys method in his cartridge conversion book. Polish the cut with crocus cloth, size and trim. Start off with sized cases in a 30-06 size headed cartridge that has maximum body taper. Case walls are more than thick enough for this.

[piwo]

Us untaleneted schleps would just send an empty case to Rocky Mountain Cartridge in Cody, WY, and have Dave make some from scratch. I'm sure he'd even put your name on the case head.

Of course, us untalented schleps are poor because of this.

[wiljen]

Us really untalented schleps just buy them from norma for $74 a hundred. 6.5x54 MS that is.

Try Here -> http://www.gunaccessories.com/Norma/index.asp


Wiljen

[Pepe Ray]

Some may be able to read minds or just be lucky or maybe the usual situation where I've just overlooked something.
Have we established just exactly which of the many 6.5 ctgs. is being discussed?
Pepe Ray

[wiljen]

Based on the descriptions of converting 30-06 or 220 swift - I was assuming the 6.5x54 MS or 6.5x53 rimless.

[Pepe Ray]

Wiljen;
Versifier said nothing about the '06 case. Only the Swift.
I too first assumed the MS or Carc. but when I went to COTW #9 it shows the Carc as 52mm not 53 and the 53mm length as for the Rimmed Dutch-Romanian and as he stated that he'd need to turn off the rim I got stumped.

So,-- We'd better get it clear which ctg. he's talkin' about. Right???
Pepe Ray

[Pepe Ray]

It may be that Dye made the correct guess. Even tho the M-S is 54mm.
When I got a carb. chambered in 6.5x54MS, it was just before Norma announced that they were discontinuing that case, so I picked up 100 at MFO. Twas not too long after that Hornady started making cases for the Carc. The only difference is a couple of mm in length OA. Actually .045". I'm sure I could be happy with those.
IAC, there are several 6.5 mil-surps out there. Best to be sure before handing out advice.
Pepe Ray

[georgewxxx]

6 months ago I bought 50 Norma's from Black Hills Shooters Supply for $18 post paid. I see now because of the metal prices going up they want $22. That's $44.25@100 now. You'll need a C&R or a FFL to buy from them...Geo

http://www.bhshooters.com/index.htm

[wiljen]

Wiljen;
Versifier said nothing about the '06 case. Only the Swift.
I too first assumed the MS or Carc. but when I went to COTW #9 it shows the Carc as 52mm not 53 and the 53mm length as for the Rimmed Dutch-Romanian and as he stated that he'd need to turn off the rim I got stumped.

So,-- We'd better get it clear which ctg. he's talkin' about. Right???
Pepe Ray

Agreed, We could use some clarification as I'm a bit lost too. It seems if he was talking the 53 rimless (aka the 6.5x54 MS) that brass wouldn't have been so hard to find. If we are speaking of the Rimmed Dutch-Romanian, then I'm lost as to why you'd turn down the rim.

[versifier]

I was looking for the rimless case.
Wiljen, thank you for the link - even Google couldn't find it. I just ordered up a hundred.
Looking at the specs in COTW, the .22 Swift, based on the 6mm Lee Navy, seemed about the closest fit. I do have a lathe, and it looks like all I have to do is recut the rim/extractor groove and trim before running through the sizing die. I am gratified at all the responses and will still likely go for it at some point in the future. It's good to know that -06 size cases can be converted, too.
Sorry for the confusion - it is the 6.5x54MS - brain cramp. The Lee Collet die in 6.5 Swede works great on it for neck sizing.
Can the Carcano cases be fired in the MS? I won't tell Ted Kennedy.

[wiljen]

Wiljen, thank you for the link - even Google couldn't find it. I just ordered up a hundred.

I don't know why they don't advertise more. They usually aren't the cheapest as I order most of my stuff from wideners/midway but they do carry a few things the others don't.

[versifier]

I just got an email from the company cancelling my order because the brass is no longer available. Oh well. Anybody else know of other possible sources? (No C&R or FFL) The book is due here sometime this week, though, so I'm not going to be high and dry. Thanks for all your input, too.

[4060MAY]

Graf shows it in stock 55/100
http://www.grafs.com/metallic/707

also Buffalo Arms

http://www.buffaloarms.com/search.ht...rchterm=6.5x54

[versifier]

Thanks for the links, both worth a try. Placed a Graf's order first. Couldn't hurt to give them a shot (I seem to remember trying Graf's already, but my memory isn't what it never was.) If no joy, I'll try Buffalo. Most places SAY they have them on their websites. So far no one has actually had any. I'll try the Carcano cases next if this fails, then I have a ton of .308 & -06 cases.

[Pepe Ray]

I havn't been keeping up with advertised acces'ys for a while but, Norma discontinued the M-S case 10 or more years ago. I didn't panic cause they were making Carcanos and I knew I could make do w/them. Then later on Hornady stared making Carc. cartridges and selling componants. Whoopie!!
You might get lucky and find some M-S cases lounging on a dusty shelf but you've got options before chucking '06 cases in your lathe or machining Swifts.
Grafs has been advertising the Hornadys for some time.
Pepe Ray

[uscra112]

I think there's some disconnect here with repspect to the suggestion about turning down .30-06 cases. The 6.5 M-S has a .447 nominal base diameter. Far too small to be simply machined from the .30-06 brass, which starts at .470. Machining .30-06 WOULD work for the 8mm M-S cartridge, which has a nominal .465 base diameter.

Studying my well-thumbed copy of Cartridges of the World, it seems that the only common case other than the Swift that has that .445 base diameter is the Krag, which is rimmed. The .35 Rem and the 7.62x39 are also close on base diam, but much too short. So the Carcano looks like a good bet if it can be bought.

I have successfully reduced base diameters by pressing them though an appropriately sized drill bushing, but it takes a hydraulic press to do it, and you have to make a special punch with a pilot to keep the primer pocket from shrinking.

As it happens that .445 base diameter is near and dear to me, because I own one of the few Czech 7.62x45 battle rifles that landed on these shores with a half-decent barrel. (Most had bores totally ruined by the corrosive issue ammo.)

I'm looking for a .444 Marlin sizing die right now, because pressing .35 Rem brass right through it may yield the .445 base diameter necessary. Nominally the .444 neck is .453. I'm hoping the die may yield .450 or less. If that won't do it, then the neck of a .44-40 is nominally .443". A little small, but it can be honed out. For the M-S, pressing .270 brass might be possible, perhaps in 2-3 stages.

[Ross]

RCBS used to make base-swaging dies, and others still do. I've used the Riceone die for making 6.5x50 Arisaka from '06. It is a bit of a chore, but doable under duress. The extractor groove usually needs cleaning up, and the primer pocket probably should be trued up.
I cannot say what the brass hardness of the swaged base is like.
The $35.98 per hundred for the Graf Carcano cases from Huntington's would tempt me to use that. Perhaps it would grow up as it ages.