My Press Mounted Nose First Sizer Adapter for Lyman/RCBS Dies

[Catshooter]

Another cool product from the well of your creativity. Very nice.


Cat

[beagle]

Never thought about Saeco dies in our experiments as neither Mark nor myself uses Saeco dies and for the majority of users, it will be RCBS or Lymans.

Actually, Saeco dies woould probably be easier to fabricate an adapter for than the RCBS and Lymans. The shell holder and push rods would be about the same for both type units./beagle

[theperfessor]

Just came in from the shop. My steel came in this afternoon. It came in a 12' length, so my friend that ordered it cut it in two 6' lengths, which I can spin in my lathe IF I have the right bushing to put in the off end of my lathe spindle - which I didn't, so I had to bore out a blank I had made up previously. Finally got that done and got all my tools laid out and dialed in to my digital readout. My Newall unit allows me to preset the offsets for 99 tools, so setting it up is just like using a CNC machine. I decided to cut the die body adapters on my own manual lathe, it's a little slower than using a CNC lathe but I've got a better selection of tools and more control over the process and more than adequate accuracy.

The first die body adapter took a while, mostly getting the thread dimensions correct. The second piece didn't take nearly as long, so I feel pretty good about that. With two die body adapters I can try a couple different die retention methods. I've lengthened the die cavity and counterbored the end so the die fits totally up inside the adapter. I'm going to try putting my outside/inside O-ring below the die in one of them, and drilling for a hair pin clip in the other one. We'll see what works best and is the easiest to machine.

Don't know how much I'll get done in the next two days, but I plan to get back on them Thursday and Friday.

I've been thinking about posting a sign up sheet, so I can make up enough with the first batch to take care of everybody that wants one. Gonna think about that, but right now I'm tired and have to get up for an 8 am class tomorrow.

[theperfessor]

Let me also mention Beagle has provided several good ideas and input into this process. And he nailed the reason I didn't consider making an adapter for Saeco dies. Saeco is just not that popular. It would depend on the maximum outside diameter and the thread diameter/pitch combination. Beagle is right, most people would be using Lyman/RCBS dies.

[theperfessor]

Always wanted one, now I have a reason to get one. Last thing I did last night before I crashed was to order a SPI 0-1" thread mike and complete anvil set from Enco. Tired of wasting time and fumbling with thread wires!

[Catshooter]

The second machinist that I worked with used thread wires. I was impressed and deceided that that was ok for her but I had to go pee.

That Beagle guy is one smart cookie I've noticed.


Cat

[Longwood]

A soda bottle will slip down over the Lee sizers, so i sometimes catch and store bullets in them..

[theperfessor]

Yes, my bullet catcher will use a soda bottle. It will also be a quick disconnect.

[smokemjoe]

I made one like that also, My dies go up in the houseing more and made a piolt or guide bushing to line up the bullet, I also took a small coffee can with a plastic lid and cut a X in the center, I put this on top of the die and dont have to pick up the bullets each time, I size my bullets .001 over size that I want and finish size them in this die, Makes them shoot alot better, I also made my own shell holder, drilled it 1/4 28 in the center and make push pins to fit for different size base bullets. You may find after sizing alot of bullets the gease makes the die hard to push out. I dont see how the thin wall die holder dont come into but it dont, I have sized 41 Swiss bullets down .006 and no troubles and in a press its no force, You got a very nice set up going, Joe

[Rick459]

ok so i wanted to purchase a set of the perfesser push through adapter for regular RCBS or Lyman sizing dies but since he is no longer making them i decided to try and make my own. so i took a a Lee factory crimp die in 30/06 that i don't use removed the internals opened the die body to accept my RCBS .265 sizing die made a punch to fit my RCBS Rock Chucker press out of a bolt. works pretty good that i will be purchasing more of the Lee die bodies for my other sizing dies. i did this all on my mini lathe and by all means i am no master machinist.



hope this was of help to some here.
Rick

[Dragonheart]

I have been thinking along the same lines because when you get down to it I haven't found a sizing system that is better than the original nose punch Lyman and RCBS dies. To that end I have purchased some threaded rod 7/8"-14 from Zorro Tools. Then I got to thinking maybe that would be too thin and since I have an RCBS Rock Chucker there is a removable threaded collet that holds the dies and Zorro had that size rod also, which is 1-1/4"-12. I don't know about all presses, but this collet size seems to be a standard and would give plenty of working room. Instead of turning the rod wouldn't it be a time saver that would justify the cost just to start out with threaded rod?

I have also considered starting with the Hornady die locking system as they make inexpensive twist locking collets with 7/8" thread that go into a 1-1/4" Hornady collet that supports their system.

[beagle]

The simplest way to go about this is with a 7/8 X 14 Lyman adapter. Pretty short but it will work. A simple matter to open the die to .700" (as well as I recall) and add a setscrew to fit into the o-ring groove to hold the sizer die in. The removable Rockchucker adapter is an idea but I have removed mine on several occasions and it's a PITA what with the fine threads and the danger of cross threading. The 7/8 X 14 dies make for a thin adapter but the work load is vertical on the adapter rather than horizontal and it works well with no failures so far. Another idea is using the old RCBS aluminium die bodies that they made years ago. These can usually be picked up cheap out of junk boxes at gun shows. More to work with on these and a nut from a plumbers can be fitted to the top as well as a thin 7/8 X 14 nut on the bottom. That really holds it stable. All kinds of rigs you can figure out./beagle

I have been thinking along the same lines because when you get down to it I haven't found a sizing system that is better than the original nose punch Lyman and RCBS dies. To that end I have purchased some threaded rod 7/8"-14 from Zorro Tools. Then I got to thinking maybe that would be too thin and since I have an RCBS Rock Chucker there is a removable threaded collet that holds the dies and Zorro had that size rod also, which is 1-1/4"-12. I don't know about all presses, but this collet size seems to be a standard and would give plenty of working room. Instead of turning the rod wouldn't it be a time saver that would justify the cost just to start out with threaded rod?

I have also considered starting with the Hornady die locking system as they make inexpensive twist locking collets with 7/8" thread that go into a 1-1/4" Hornady collet that supports their system.

[Dragonheart]

Thanks Beagle; I hadn't thought of the Lyman adapter, but since I now have 2' of 7/8' threaded rod I think I will just go with my original idea and just drill/ream out a cut piece to .700" for the dies. Since I will be working with an inverted press and all the load will be down my thoughts were all I need is just a machined cup to drop the dies into. The nose punches could be made with various size punches pressed or screwed into a shellhead adapter.

[beagle]

That will work on the inverted cup. I recommend some method of anchoring the die for the up stroke. In nose first sizing, minute slivers of lead become trapped in the lube holes in the die (scraped off during sizing). This will eventually bind the push rod making anchoring it desirable. However, it sounds good and you're on the right track. It is also desirable that the push rod be kind of loose or float as this allows it to self center and avoid wear on the side of the sizer die. The tolerance/slop in the receptacle cup can compensate for this somewhat. Keep us posted on how it turns out./beagle

[Catshooter]

Do bear in mind that some sizer dies are hardened, and some aren't. Might not make any difference to your application, but it might.


Cat

[beagle]

A little more time now to comment. The last model that Crazy mark made when we were working on this project was a die that had the top enclosed except for a hole that the sized bullet exited through. The remaing portion retained the sizing die at the top. It had just enough space for the die. He was a maintenance supervisor at a hospital and somewhere off plumbing came up with a fairly thin (1/4") 7/8X14 brass nut that had a smaller inside hole. He opened this until it left only a small lip to retain the die. I never saw this one as he was getting really sick then but we corresponded about it. That would be a really neat rig. The outside of the brass nut had flats for removal with a wrench for die removal. After this he was too sick to mess with casting stuff./beagle

[Dragonheart]

I don't think securing the RCBS/Lyman dies in an adapter will pose any problems.

My thoughts start with a piece of threaded rod drilled through large enough to allow for bullets to be pushed through, say 1/2", would accommodate a 45. Then ream/bore out a cup to the dies diameter measured at .700", leaving enough material at the bottom of the cup to support the die when dropped into the cup. The sides for the shelf would leave .200" (.700"-.500") for support.

As far as holding the die in place, a 7/8" nut with a 1/2" washer tacked to the top of the nut could be screwed down on the open end of the threaded rod. This would hold the die and allow bullets to be placed into the die just like a lube/sizer. Of course with the proper equipment a more sophisticated locking nut could be made. It souldn't make any difference that the adapter stood proud. The bushing adapter NOE makes for sizing stands 1" proud in the press.

I don't think there is enough material on a 7/8" rod to allow for interior threads for a cap. For interior threads so that the adapter would sit flush in the press would require stepping up to the 1-1/4' rod, which would have more than enough room for just about anything. My problem is on my little lathe my collets max out at 7/8". Those fortunate to have a real lathe that wouldn't be a problem.

[beagle]

Pretty easy to go with 1 1/4" material standing up (proud). Plenty of room for an internal threaded nut or a groove for an E-clip as a retainer or even a straight pin on the sides as a retainer. I can see the problem on the lathe size. That's been our problem all along. No big lathe and making do with available 7/8 X 14 stuff already existing. Don't fall into the fallacy of thinking you have to use steel. Aluminum's strong enough. Our task was to modify existing stuff without a lot of lathe work other than the boring of the die to accept the sizer die. That's one reason we used a softened Lee shell holder as the holder for the push rods and 5/16" bolts as the push rods. Already threaded except for the shell holder. This is not rocket science. What we need is a simple design that's easy to turn out with a minimum of tool work. That's what we're shooting for here. Something good for all bullet casters to obtain and use./beagle