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Thread: Mosin-Nagant hypothesis-

  1. #21
    Boolit Mold
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    Well, further, then- is the rise/fall/movement of the cocking piece necessary for the the trigger to work? IOW, if the cocking piece was held stationary in the vertical plane, say by a slot milled into its right side that engaged a stud/screw in the receiver, would it prevent the trigger from correctly functioning?

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    I've considered this also. Just never got around to it.
    Why argue about it?

    How about a little empirical data?
    That is, just go and do it and lets see how accurate the dang thing is or isn't.
    What's to lose. Mosin cocking pcs. are not expensive.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by 2manygunz View Post
    IMHO, if the "bolt rise" is consistent, the sight should work within reason. Think about all the 1911 type hand guns, SKS rifles, and there are probably others I cannot recall just now. They are rather loose collections of parts that function in an acceptable manor because the parts are in pretty much the same state of alignment when the trigger is pulled. They may "flop all over the place" after the shot, but return to the same starting point.
    Russian SKSs, some of the early Norinco SKSs, and a few other nationalities are actually nicely machined rifles.

    If the rifle hasn't been abused, they lock up tightly when the bolt closes. So, lockup is very predictable.
    There is a reason the Russians replaced the SKS with the AK... the SKS was too good for their standards, and required too much machining (where a good portion of the AK is stamped).

    Don't blame the design for the damage caused by negligent owners/soldiers, and lazy countries (such as China in later years) that cut corners to increase production. Real SKSs are good rifles (primarily Russians). The cheap trash that was produced by other countries really shouldn't be called by the SKS name.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Josh Smith's Avatar
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    Hello,

    The bolt is not static enough in the Mosin-Nagant to rely solely on a rear sight on the cocking piece.

    What it will do well is help you focus your attention on the front and rear sights, much like those one peep things that fit on shooting glasses.

    As Mr. Gibson mentioned, the bolt follows the sear downward for a bit when the trigger is pulled. The Finns tried to fix this, but found that the fix -- two rails on the cocking piece riding in two recesses cut into the receiver -- made the rifle unreliable in adverse conditions like mud and snow.

    If you're dead set on a diopter rear sight, you'd be best off trying to find a Finn 28/76 sight:



    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...an-ready-to-go!

    Those rifles have been beating almost all other nations' rifles -- including Mausers -- in matches for some time now.

    Regards,

    Josh

  5. #25
    Boolit Mold
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    all appreciated, thanks.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    That Finn sight is the cat's meow.
    Thank you, Josh.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    On the rear sight situation see my other post with the pictures, total cost $1.50 and labor.
    Now as to making a Mosin into a bomb by converting it to 45-70, far from it! The Mosin is stronger than an Enfield and i have a mighty nice Enfield in 45-70 and as an added advantage the Mosin magazine should work better than the 303's. I might actually do one of these myself just for the fun of it. As to the ethics of converting a $90 milsurp into a hunting rifle, that is up to everyone to decide for himself but if I can make somethinf I want at a reasonable price I see no problem with it. I do hate to see a $90 rifle made into a $20 heapp of parts but that's the only way some folks learn. I sure didn't see too many complaints about the Springfield I posted a while back, and a well done Mosin would be nice also.

  8. #28
    Boolit Bub
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    Mosin-Nagant hypothesis

    Amazing thread!

    I'd heard there was a match-grade aperture backsight for the Mosin Nagant, but I've never seen pictures before. Any idea where I might find one to buy?

    I've wanted to put decent sights on my 1940 vintage MN ever since I shot a 1" group off the bench at 100 yards using the Mojo ghost ring and Partizan factory ammo; I beleive the rifle's capable of superb performance, but the sights are holding it back. The Mojo is better than the factory sight, for sure, but our club range *starts* at 300 yards...

    So far, all I've done is fit an Italian repro Creedmore tang sight. It fits OK, and it should give me enough elevation out to 500 yards or so, but -

    1. You have to fold it back every time you open the bolt
    2. It offers elevation but almost no windage

    (1) is a PITA but I can probably live with it. (2) is rather more of an issue; am considering replacing the foresight with a Pedersoli tunnel sight with a certain limited amount of windage adjustment. But these sights cost more than I paid for the rifle... If I could locate one of those dedicated aperture sights, I'd far rather spend the money on that and a bolt job.

    Other advantage of the Creedmore type sight is that the only permanent modification is 2 holes drilled into the wood, which cd be easily filled & disguised should I wish to return the rifle to original spec. Not that I'm unduly bothered about that aspect.

    Scopes are out for me; our club shoots iron sights only.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Why not jb-weld or soft solder a small drilled out hex nut on the rear site leaf? My mosin shoots low, and I have to have the rear site set at 200 yards for a <100 yard target. If it doesn''t work, just heat it up and back to where you started.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    The main benefit of a farther rear mounted sight aperture is to increase the sight radius.. Unfortunately, all the benefit of increasing the sight radius is undone by making it wobbly... It's akin to using a broken scope because you don't like iron sights....

    You can buy a commercial replacement peep aperture deal that replaces the existing sight ladder... I actually own the SKS model of the sight - it has a wheel you turn to do fine adjustment on vertical, and a screw to adjust side to side shift.... Works quite well... especially if you prefer a peep/ghost ring to a notch...

    In the end.. Time and experience is the great winnowing fan.. and the cream rises to the top.... There are a TON of rifles out there with rear cocking pieces.... Hundreds of Millions made over the years...

    Thanks

  11. #31
    Boolit Bub
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    I'm assuming the sight Truckjohn has in mind is the Mojo ghost-ring aperture unit, which I've got on my M-N at the moment. It's a huge improvement on the military ladder sight, entirely adequate out to about 200 yards, but beyond that it quickly runs out of clicks, having a limited range of adjustment and fairly coarse increments.

    I found out why Creedmore type sights screwed into the woodwork of a M-N don't work; the sight smacks you in the face when the gun goes off. It's like shooting with a scope half an inch from your eye. Forget it.

    Next step; I've got a Parker Hale match rearsight orginally designed for the BSA .22 match target rifle, which I might just be able to mount on an offset plate on the left hand side of the woodwork. It'll probably mean butchering the bolt handle (unless I can mount it in front of the bolt handle, as I believe was done sometimes with aperture sights on '03 Springfields) and so I'm reminding myself of the old adage about thinking three times before cutting once...

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Lead Fred's Avatar
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    Being that the Brit 303 SMLE has already been converted, thats the way I would go.

    http://www.lowescertifiedguns.com/sm...le942used.aspx

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/gibbs_summit.htm
    Last edited by Lead Fred; 04-16-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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  13. #33
    Boolit Master at Heavens Range

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    There is almost zero slop in the Mosin-Nagant swivel stud peep sight linked above
    http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/rr.htm by Hamish. Side to side, it's .001" each way. I made 10 bolt, dry fire cycles and measured the distance between the cocking piece and the right side of the action. The AV was ~.001". The gap varied from ~.003" to ~.004". As far as the up and down movement others have observed, I could see NO movement in mine. It's an M44.

  14. #34
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio Grande View Post
    Why argue about it?

    How about a little empirical data?
    That is, just go and do it and lets see how accurate the dang thing is or isn't.
    Good point.

    I did just that. The cocking piece moves if you push it with your hand, but if you cock and don't screw with it, it returns to the same place and stays there. My cocking piece starts to move downward when pulling the trigger, but the firing pin releases about the time I notice it move slightly.

    I got around 3.5" groups at 100 yds with Privi 150 gr jsps shooting out of a bubba rifle with a home-crowned 20" barrel.


  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Years ago I scouted a FN 98 in 7.62x51. I decided it needed a back up sight so made up this poor boy aperture sight.












  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by truckjohn View Post
    The main benefit of a farther rear mounted sight aperture is to increase the sight radius.. Unfortunately, all the benefit of increasing the sight radius is undone by making it wobbly... It's akin to using a broken scope because you don't like iron sights....

    You can buy a commercial replacement peep aperture deal that replaces the existing sight ladder... I actually own the SKS model of the sight - it has a wheel you turn to do fine adjustment on vertical, and a screw to adjust side to side shift.... Works quite well... especially if you prefer a peep/ghost ring to a notch...

    In the end.. Time and experience is the great winnowing fan.. and the cream rises to the top.... There are a TON of rifles out there with rear cocking pieces.... Hundreds of Millions made over the years...

    Thanks
    I mounted this 30 dollar air gun aperture sight with target knops on rear sight 12 mm dovetail as a back up on this little prebubbarized MN. It works great with a large aperture as a forward mounted ghost ring sight.

    The scout scope is also mounted on the dovetail.




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