44 mag loads blue dot?

[bjeffv]

I am picking up a new 329pd on friday.

In the past I have reloaded with blue dot for 10mm and I liked it back then.
My recent experience with lil'gun and forcing cone erosion, has made me wiser and so I will ask ahead of time what people think of blue dot loads (one grain below max) in a 44 mag revolver? (its in the book and I have a pound left over so I figured why not ask)

Too hot a powder etc, will forcing cone erosion occur more quickly than with a different powder?

Any suggestions on a good powder that doesn't burn super hot will be welcome.

[fecmech]

I had excellent results with BD behind the Lyman 429421 in my Super Blackhawk. It was a max load from the Lyman Cast manual and clocked almost 1400 fps out of my 7.5" bbl and excellent accuracy. I think it would be a handful in a 329 PD!

[stubshaft]

I used 19.0 behind a 429421 in my SBHK and the loads were OK but it seemed to burn a little dirty.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

RCBS 44-250-K clocks 1182 fps with 11.5 gr of Blue Dot in my 3 screw SBH 7 ½” bbl. Very clean and this is my 2nd favorite load in this gun. I don’t shoot the Keith boolit as fast as the SBH can throw it because I have no need to. Blue Dot works great in the .44 Magnum.

In my Super RedHawk I used to shoot a lot of 300 gr jacket bullets over 14.5 gr of Blue Dot at 1060 fps. Again a very gentile shoot all day kind of a combination.

[Larry Gibson]

repost.

Larry Gibson

Hercules Blue Dot VS Alliant Blue Dot; .44 Magnum

Date: 15 April, 2009
Location: Tacoma Rifle and Revolver Range, University Place, Washington
Time: 1300 – 1600
Temperature: 43 – 50 degrees F.
Atmospheric pressure: 29.92
Wind: 2-5 mph from 0530
Test instrument: Oehler M43 Personal Ballistics Laboratory
Test Cartridge: .44 Magnum
Test Case: WW Winchester
Test primer: Federal 150 Large Pistol
Test Powders:
Hercules Blue Dot lot #BD152 purchased 10-15+ years ago as the price was $11.89
Alliant Blue Dot lot #289 shift 2, Feb 22, 2008 with a price of $20.89
Powder charge weights: 14.5 to 18.4 gr in .5 grain increments with all charges weighed on a Redding
powder scale
Test Bullet: RCBS 44-250-K cast of 60-40 WW (new) – linotype alloy, weight 252 gr, sized .430 in
Lyman 450 and lubed with Javelina
Load OAL: 1.705”
Crimp: Case mouth crimped completely under edge of forward driving band
Loading dies used: RCBS with carbide sizer
Shots in test string; 5
Test sequence: a test string was fired with the Hercules powder then the subsequent test string was of the same charge weight of Alliant powder. Thus test strings were concurrent from 14.5 gr up through the 18.4 gr powder charge weight

Results:
The M43 PBL provides much information that would result in an overly long report. Pertinent to the question of the difference between the older Hercules Blue Dot and the new Alliant Blue Dot is the comparison of velocity and pressure per a equal charge weight of each powder. Thus I shall report the muzzle velocity (corrected to muzzle by the M43) and the pressure (rounded to nearest 100 psi so 20,500 psi will read 20,5) for each powder charge weight of both Hercules and Alliant Blue Dots. The format will read the powder charge with the initial H or A in front, the muzzle velocity and the pressure in psi(M43).



H14.5/1330/24,3
A14.5/1310/25,2
H15/1368/26,3
A15/1340/27,4
H15.5/1412/28,5
A15.5/1380/28,3
H16/1447/30,4
A16/1438/31,6
H16.5/1493/32,6
A16.5/1464/31,4
H17/1521/32,4
A17/1498/32,8
H17.5/1541/31,4*
A17.5/1527/31,4*
H18/1565/29,1*
A18/1569/24,4*
H18.4/1589/20,5*
A18.41583/23,0*

* Note; these pressures are not misprints.

Discussion/conclusion; the tests proved interesting to say the least. I did not find any incident or indication of “pressure spikes”. To the contrary I found that as the load (17.5 gr and above) exceeded 100% loading density and be came compressed the pressure curve became longer with less pressure. As the powder charge increased and compression of the powder charge became greater the bottom literally fell out pressure wise. The velocity increase per increased powder charge also began to lesson. I discussed this at length with Dr, Oehler. While he modestly says he is not a ballistician (he is a gentleman of the old school) he thinks that ignition is a problem with the compressed loads. A magnum primer may or may not improve ignition and would have to be tested.

Quite frankly I find the 17 gr load of either the Hercules or the Alliant Blue Dot powder to be a good practical maximum with this bullet. Looking at the graph of PSI vs Powder charge we see that 17 gr is the peak with both powders. However when we look at the graph of FPS vs Powder charge it is difficult to make that distinction when comparing them to each other. The old Hercules Blue Dot loading data per Lyman was 15 to 18.4 gr with the 429421 cast bullet. The new Alliant Blue Dot data as per the “New Edition” 48th Lyman manual is 14.5 to 16 gr with that same 429421 cast bullet. Interesting to note is that with 429244 they listed 14 to 17.4 gr of Alliant Blue Dot. The Lyman pressures are lited in CUPs which aren’t directly convertible to psi so I won’t go there.

Keep in mind also the TC Contender hasn’t the long throat or the barrel/cylinder gap of revolvers. Thus the pressures in revolvers would no doubt be a little less per given powder charge. I will work up the same loads with Alliant Blue Dot from 14.5 to 17.5 gr in the ½ gr increments. I will then test these in my Ruger BH 50th Anniversary with 6 ½” barrel. Of course I do not have a strain gauge on the Ruger so I will be depending on the chronographed results to give indications of a good load, a bad load or “pressure spiking’.

I’ve graphed out comparing the FPS gain per charge weight and the psi gain per charge weight. Looking at both graphs it is apparent that with this test both the Hercules and Alliant Blue Dots are within normal lot to lot variation of each other. Basically, based on this test with a normal weight range cast bullet, there is no apparent difference between them either in burning rate or burning characteristics. Further testing with light weight jacketed bullets is in order but with the current situation I’ve not been able to find either 180 or 200 gr .44 jacketed bullets. Further testing in other cartridges such as the .357 and .41 magnums is in order also.

The photo of the fired cases is as they were fired in order. The green box contained the Hercules loads and the red box the Alliant loads. There was no indication of cartridges stick as all were easily extracted from the chamber of the Contender barrel with fingers. There is no appreciable indication of pressure by the look of the primers.

I shall continue to use Alliant Blue Dot as I find it to be a very fine powder for certain applications as id found the old Hercules Blue Dot to be. When using Alliant Blue Dot in a cartridge for which I only have older Hercules Blue Dot loads I will carefully work up loads again. I suggest anyone taking this data to do so with caution and work up your own loads as per instructions in all loading manuals.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Why, when 296 or H110 gives the same velocity with less starting pressure.
Use faster powders for reduced loads, never to match slow powder velocities.

[runfiverun]

blue dot will also lose velocity when it gets cold.
just something to be aware of.
it is one of those could have been a great powders but things..

[bjeffv]

Thanks guys for the info. I might just load up blue dot for my first few plinking rounds for getting used to the gun, then switch to 298 or 110 like suggested.

Definitely need full speed at all temps, and the best speed for the pressure. The whole purpose of this gun is for carry in alaska or where ever I might be. (have seen wolves while grouse hunting in the winter, and a season on them opens up next year )

[beagle]

I agree with runfiverun. I have had velocity fluctuations in weather hovering around 18 degrees farenheit so I'm kind labeling Blue Dot as cold sensitive but it's still a good powder for the .44 Mag in moderate loads and who needs to be out shooting in 18 degree temps unless you're cabin bound./beagle

[bjeffv]

While its my carry while hunting and hiking just in case gun. So temperatures will fluctuate and be cold. As long as its zero or above I will grouse hunt. I will probably developed two different loads one for practice with blue dot and one for carrying. Hopefully I can get them at about the same velocity at normal indoor range temp.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Judan 454 started a threat about the .44 Mag as a home defense round, Blue Dot is not a powder for such a job. Lots of muzzle flash, not a problem at an outdoor range and kind of cool at an indoor range but Blue Dot is not to be used at night due to muzzle flash. It’s the worst I’ve ever seen of all the powders I’ve tried. I love Blue Dot and prefer it over 2400 especially in a DA revolver.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

so BjeffV, to get 1100-1200fps, with a 275gr keith ( actual weight) in my SBH bisley hunter 7.5", would 14grs get it there? I know it should according to your pressure gun, but what about in a revolver, with the flash gap, and the heavier boolit considered?

[megasupermagnum]

I agree with runfiverun. I have had velocity fluctuations in weather hovering around 18 degrees farenheit so I'm kind labeling Blue Dot as cold sensitive but it's still a good powder for the .44 Mag in moderate loads and who needs to be out shooting in 18 degree temps unless you're cabin bound./beagle

Here in MN, 18 degrees is a warm winter day, and I shoot year round.

I have not done much testing in handgun or rifle with blue dot in summer vs winter temps, but I have done some in shotgun. It certainly lost velocity, but it was consistent. I think I lost about 75 fps going from 75F down to 10F, SD was still in the teens.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

When i ran out of 2400 i switched to blue dot worked good for me

[ReloaderFred]

so BjeffV, to get 1100-1200fps, with a 275gr keith ( actual weight) in my SBH bisley hunter 7.5", would 14grs get it there? I know it should according to your pressure gun, but what about in a revolver, with the flash gap, and the heavier boolit considered?

I doubt he's going to answer you. He last visited the forum in August, 2016, and this thread is from 2012.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Are you really going to run your 329PD so hot that you have to worry about forcing come erosion?

I’ll bet you’re going to find a bowl of poorage like Goldie Locks that is neither too hot nor too cold but is just right for that 329PD and you won’t have to worry about forcing cone erosion. You’ll load six (6) max loads to charge the cylinder for carry just in case the bears come home when your are asleep but they won’t be your day at the range loads.

[jd9770]

Following.