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Thread: Converting Berdan primer pockets to Boxer

  1. #161
    Boolit Buddy

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    I think most of what I find is steel. Even the brass colored cases seem to rust and I believe they are actually "copper washed" steel.
    I load a GC cast bullet over 30gr of Varget and it splits the neck after the first reload every time. So what are we really talking about here with converting berdan primed brass? Are they really brass or are they the copper washed steel? I just have never come across actual berdan primed brass in 7.62x54r.

  2. #162
    Boolit Buddy Twmaster's Avatar
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    Actual Berdan primed brass 7.62x54R is rare. I have a few. Very few.
    Last edited by Twmaster; 11-10-2013 at 08:12 PM.
    Mike

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  3. #163
    Boolit Master

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    I do believe Albanian surplus 762 x 54 is brass cased, that is what I use. My friends save the brass for me. Swiss and Austrian surplus, for their appropriate firearms, is very good brass also.

  4. #164
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twmaster View Post
    If you are going to take the extra bother to decap these like you would Berdan primers why bother converting them at all?
    Cause Berdan primers aren't that easy to find around here.
    They are available but if you already have easy access to boxer primers you might prefer those, especially if you already have a preferred brand, and a stockpile of those.

    I have a few FN .303 cases that I was disappointed to find were Berdan primed, the diameter of the primer looks close to that of the standard large rifle primer.
    I have POF brass that takes a very large diameter primer.
    Not sure if I care to convert any cases since Boxer primed .303 cases are available.

    I a SHTF scenario it would be much easier to manufacture Berdan primers compared to boxer primers.

    PS
    I can see how converting cases would be desireable if you have buckets ful of once fired berdan cases, or the cartridge is of a type that boxer primed cases are not available.
    Carry on, I'm not that interested.
    Last edited by Multigunner; 11-10-2013 at 09:12 PM.

  5. #165
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janoosh View Post
    I do believe Albanian surplus 762 x 54 is brass cased, that is what I use. My friends save the brass for me. Swiss and Austrian surplus, for their appropriate firearms, is very good brass also.
    Yes Albanian are brass I bought 2 sealed tins when they were available from Century, 2 or 3 years ago.

  6. #166
    Boolit Mold
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    8x57 Mauser FMJ loads

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    My method of conversion as originally posted allows the converted cases to be reloaded the same as any Boxer primed case. I now have 303 Brit, 7.65 Argentine and 8x57 brass cases converted along with the 7.62x54R cases and all have been reloaded multiple times with no problems or loss of any cases.

    Larry Gibson
    Larry,

    Have you fired any FMJ loads with the 8mm Mauser rounds? If so can you tell us how they fired/deprimed/etc.. Thank you,

    Carl

  7. #167
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Seaweed02 View Post
    Larry,

    Have you fired any FMJ loads with the 8mm Mauser rounds? If so can you tell us how they fired/deprimed/etc.. Thank you,

    Carl
    Not FMJs in the 8mm yet that I recall. I have fired service equivalent j bullet loads in the 303, 7.65 Argie and the 7.62x54R w/o any problems at all. All 3 were with the .312 Hornady SP over milsurp 4895.

    Larry Gibson

  8. #168
    Boolit Master
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    I saw a couple of references to drilling and installing a 209 shotgun primer which I did to a dozen 7.62x39 cases today just to see what was involved. On the mini lathe it was pretty simple but not having tried them yet, I am wondering how they will hold up to full pressure loads. Like to here from folks that have actually tried the 209s. Thanks Buck

  9. #169
    Boolit Buddy Twmaster's Avatar
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    I've heard of folks doing that on berdan brass with the largest primers like often seen on 7.62 x 54 and British .303

    Please update us once you've shot some.
    Mike

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  10. #170
    Boolit Master
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    For eastern bloc berdan cases, there is a very simple method of removing the berdan primers intact after having drilled the anvil through the inside of the case. This involves the use of a long 5/64" drill bit, preferably a split tip and putting it in the dimple (common for eastern block cases, brass or steel) between the flash holes. This dimple is at the center of the anvil and works every time so far. To verify the drill is in the dimple instead of somewhere else, turn the case with your fingers while holding it on the drill bit and see if it turns eccentricly. If so, it's not on center. When it turns without undulating, it's where it should be and drilling can begin. I seat the case against the edge of my workbench and, visually keeping the drill centered in the case mouth, drill until the drill wants to catch and turn the case. Once the bit begins to grab, it's nearly breaking out of the sides of the tapered anvil and it can be deprimed in the usual size-and-decap die. What emerges is the cup and the tip of the anvil. No water involved and it prevents ruining cases with very stubborn primers. Cases from other countries, like British 7.62x51 Radway Green have no dimple and water or a puncture-and-pry tool seems the only reasonably easy method. This drilling the anvil from the inside paves the way for the remainder of the anvil to be removed with a primer pocket depth uniformer which will cut more efficiently now since the stub of anvil is hollow. My preference is to use carbide uniformers for their durability.

    Once the anvil is milled away, I use the 5.5mm cups seated backwards in berdan cases which have very deep pockets, some nearly .150 deep, in which a .130 tall boxer LRP would be unreachable by the firing pin. The walls of the reversed cup are then milled out using the uniformer tool. This also closes the two original flash holes and there's just the new one on center once the cup is also drilled, again through the case mouth using the anvil drill hole as a guide. Fortunately, very few cases have these extra deep pockets. The Turkish 8mm has them and some with headstamps I haven't been able to figure out yet. So far, the Eastern Bloc 7.62x54R cases, steel and brass, haven't been a problem to convert. Yugo 7.62x39 also convert handily.

    By the way, I notice some folks are converting large cases to small rifle primers and I've done a few as well, but I get an unacceptable number of click-bangs, probably because the small primer isn't vigorous enough to get the charge lit in a timely manner. Now I convert them to LRP only. Are others getting hang-fires also?

    Cases with 6.5mm primers have a .253 diameter primer pocket and the temptation is to drill them out to accept 209 shotgun primers, but a very good bushing can be made from 1/4" soft copper tubing. The ID is approximately .180, a bit large for small rifle primers (.175), but for those who prefer them, a piece of tubing .135 long will provide sufficient material, that when pressed in flush with the case head, the hole will be slightly smaller than a small rifle primer and can now be swaged up to correct size with a SRP pocket swage tool. For LRP, it can be swaged for a small primer and then drilled with a #5 bit (.2055), swaged up with a LRP pocket swage button and finished with the LRP pocket uniformer for correct depth. I have had only one of these copper bushings show any willingness to move after being swaged into place and my ten test cases have been loaded five or six times.
    Last edited by yeahbub; 02-17-2014 at 11:13 PM.

  11. #171
    Boolit Buddy Twmaster's Avatar
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    That is a very different take on converting these Berdan cases.

    I mentioned the copper pipe method in post #132. It's slick and works great in those really large primer cases.

    Thank you for posting.
    Mike

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    1 in office. 1 in prison.

  12. #172
    Boolit Master
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    I drilled a few 7.62x54r brass cases to accept a 209 shotgun primer and have been working up to see if they will handle the higher pressure. So far I have got up to 40grs of H4895 with a 150gr cast with good results. When I find some .313 jacketed bullets I will try full power loads. I'm drilling on a lathe starting with a center drill followed with a letter C drill then counter sink for the primer rim with a 5/16 end mill. I'm using RIO 209 primers as they are a couple thousands larger than US primers and fit very tight in the hole made with a C drill. US primers fit but not tight. Right now I'm using some home made punches for priming and depriming similar to the Lee "Whack a Mole" loaders. I'll post more when I have more results.

  13. #173
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I've shot the 7.62x39 I drilled w/my drill tool that uses the neck as a squaring bushing . I've fired them w/full loads of 4895 and PP'd 150s and 4350 w/both naked and pp'd 200s . The ball swagged pockets for LRP have held up to at least 5 firings at 35,000 to 42,000 (according to the books) w/o covering the berdan holes. This in a slopped out SkS but it works and holds.
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

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  14. #174
    Boolit Man monmouth's Avatar
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    Hi guys,

    I read the thread and it's a great read. For those needing those tricky calibers with Berdan primers, I throw away at least 40lbs of it a month (7.62x54R, 6.55, .308, 7.62x39, etc...). They are all brass and not plated because it has to pass my magnetic test before it hits the stainless pool.

    The scrap yard laughs, "That is the cleanest scrap brass in the yard, you don't have to clean it to give it to us." My reply is that it's easier to sort clean brass than dirty, so they all jump in the pool and then I sort/cull. If you need anything, please let me know via PM. I just ask that you cover my scrap price, shipping, and Paypal fees; not looking to make anything on it.

  15. #175
    Boolit Buddy Twmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monmouth View Post
    Hi guys,

    I read the thread and it's a great read. For those needing those tricky calibers with Berdan primers, I throw away at least 40lbs of it a month (7.62x54R, 6.55, .308, 7.62x39, etc...). They are all brass and not plated because it has to pass my magnetic test before it hits the stainless pool.

    The scrap yard laughs, "That is the cleanest scrap brass in the yard, you don't have to clean it to give it to us." My reply is that it's easier to sort clean brass than dirty, so they all jump in the pool and then I sort/cull. If you need anything, please let me know via PM. I just ask that you cover my scrap price, shipping, and Paypal fees; not looking to make anything on it.
    Now that is incredibly generous.
    Mike

    Politicians should be limited to two terms.

    1 in office. 1 in prison.

  16. #176
    Boolit Master
    GREENCOUNTYPETE's Avatar
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    I have converted a few 7.62x39

    I saw Larry emphasizes the center punch a second time about half way through the thread

    the center punch centered and deep till your center punching into the anvil is key to drilling with a hand drill and not sliding off the anvil with the drill bit

    this changes the oops factor a lot when doing it with a hand drill

    if you don't have a rimmed case to keep it from sliding down in the vice , use a bolt that fits in the case and will rest on the vice when you clamp case head between the jaws , this lets you get a much better hit on it with the punch
    Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 02-26-2014 at 03:55 PM.

  17. #177
    Boolit Master dnepr's Avatar
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    Well I just scored a nice surprise picked up a almost full case of romanian surplus 7.62x39 , thought it would be steel cased stuff but it is brass !! , well I will be doing some conversions to boxer with this stuff , it 1967 production according to the head stamp

  18. #178
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    This little ditty and the drill press make drilling the post a breeze and it uses the neck to hold both the case and tool straight and aligned. I'll admit to loosing about 5 in 200 cases,due to a missed/wandering bit.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	berdan drill.jpg 
Views:	167 
Size:	13.3 KB 
ID:	100275
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  19. #179
    Boolit Bub
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    Pretty interesting,alot of work.

  20. #180
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harter66 View Post
    This little ditty and the drill press make drilling the post a breeze and it uses the neck to hold both the case and tool straight and aligned. I'll admit to loosing about 5 in 200 cases,due to a missed/wandering bit.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	berdan drill.jpg 
Views:	167 
Size:	13.3 KB 
ID:	100275
    What size drill bit did you end up using when you made "this little ditty"?

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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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