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Thread: AA 1680 and WW680 & .357 Maximum

  1. #1
    Boolit Master leftiye's Avatar
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    AA 1680 and WW680 & .357 Maximum

    I've got a couple fo pounds of WW 680 (I have no idea why I have them, never could find anything to use it in). As I remember, it is too slow to use in .44Mag. loads. That puts it about where AA 1680 is for burning speed. Are these powders similar? Or maybe the same powder reincarnated by AA?

    I'm finally getting some .357 Maximum loads loaded, and the cast boolits have me in a quandry. The .357 M may well have all it takes to run my 358156es faster than they can go accurately. The boolits are pretty durn hard (probable linotype which I cast up years ago), but they used to be just on the edge of leading at high speed out of my L-Frame so I'm not sure they'll like 1800 fps or anything like that even if being shot out of and correctly sized for a rifle barrel. Lubed with Lyman's NRA 50/50 formula, and seated out to the bottom of the top land(!). Any one have a perspective on this?

    I've got 2400, and 4227, which I think would do well. All of the ball powders don't want to be loaded down (yer not supposed to). And I really like Blue dot, a fantastic powder for making high velocity (relatively) in low pressure ctgs. The long seating to reach the rifling kind of messes all of the data up too. Anybody Have any pet loads that seem to fit here? I'm thinking of staying pretty slow 1400-1500 fps maybe (though I'd like to go faster)......

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Ricochet's Avatar
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    Smile

    I've read that AA1680 is a batch of surplus WC680.

    WW 680 is the commercial canister grade of WC680.

    Closely similar powders, subject to batch variation.
    "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

  3. #3
    Boolit Master


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    Never tryed 680 or AA1680 with cast in the 357 Max
    With jacketed it worked well
    But a little to much muzzel flash and BOOM for my liking for hunting .

    I burned my last lb of 680 10 - 15 years back
    I use AA1680 in the 7.62 x 39

    Johnch
    Yea, thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
    And I carry a SIG

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Scrounger's Avatar
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    Try Reloader 7 and AA 2200.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Glen's Avatar
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    Winchester 680 is a fine powder for the .357 Maximum. In my experience, it is not the same powder as AA 1680 -- similar yes, the same no way. For a summary on my experiences with the .357 Max, go to:

    http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell357Max.htm
    Glen

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I also have two pounds of WW 680. I've been looking for something to shoot it in. Perhaps a .454 casull?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    FWIW--- I have used WW 680 in 22 K Hornet with great success. For those looking for other uses

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Mugs's Avatar
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    The Speer manual #11 has a section of heavy bullet loads [ 180 & 200] for 357 silhouette that shows loads for 680.
    Mugs
    Shoot only Cast Bullets!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master fourarmed's Avatar
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    My wife has a Ruger Maximum, and is interested in shooting it in silhouette this summer, so I have been working on loads. The only remotely suitable boolit I have is the Lyman 358429. So far I have tried 15.0, 15.5, and 16.0 grains of sr-4759 with the case crimped over the front of the driving band. Crimped in the crimp groove makes it too long for the cylinder.

    Spring break is next week, and I will be doing some more testing. I have some loads with 14.5 gr. of IMR-4227 to try as well. I think I may also try Re-7.

    I had some "mystery" loads that shot very well, so I broke one of them down to see what was in it. It was a 158 gr. JHP with lots of exposed lead, 24.3 gr. of some fine spherical powder (748???) and what appeared to be a Rem 7 1/2 primer.

  10. #10
    PinewoodSavage 357maximum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnch View Post
    Never tryed 680 or AA1680 with cast in the 357 Max
    With jacketed it worked well
    But a little to much muzzel flash and BOOM for my liking for hunting .



    Johnch


    My experience and opinion mirror Johns....It is a decent powder, but published high velocities are impossible to attain with 1680, one runs outta room, but ya gets lots a boom.
    "Happiness is a target rich environment"


    Sarcasm is spelled with a purple.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I've found some sucess useing 1680 and wc 680 in 30 carbine and blue dot.Also made some of these for 357max. it's cheap to shoot but 296 will beat it. same with 445 supermag and 45 mag .4227 seems to shoot as well, or a bit better but not quite as fast.I haven't tried in my FA 454.but seems I should.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master leftiye's Avatar
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    Glen Fryxell's article at lasc and 357's comments and some others seem to put the .357 Max as one of the few that really shine with 4227 (If it's your favorite powder please don't jump all over me. It's just that after doing the research on many other calibers, I've come up with other favorite powders). So, for cast boolits, I think I'll go with 4227 this time. It might be neat to come up with a rather hot load that shoots accurately in reality, not just plinking accuracy that one tells people shoots "good."

    I've abandoned the 358156 for the present, and maybe for good in the Max. I am sure that I could jack it up to warp ten in the Max, but I'm also almost sure that unless I loaded it down in a major way, it wouldn't shoot accurately. I decided that I should get a serious boolit instead of the light 358156. I cast a bunch of Mountain Mold 200 gr. .358 fngcs this evening. They will allow me to use the Max's power somewhat more, and are a better all around bullet, especially for long range. I am not interested even at 10 cents each in shooting 158 grain J- word b*ll*ts at bunnies and other varmints even though they would do extreme damage. Plus, the 200 grainers were where I was going anyway.

    Another powder that has come up in this thread is 4759. Especially in view of the possible need for a mild load for the 358156es, this might be a great powder for that purpose. Thanks to all who've helped me here, and let me add -so far. I appreciate your help, and wouldn' mind continuing on if you have further ideas.
    Last edited by leftiye; 03-17-2007 at 09:03 AM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Scrounger's Avatar
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    Here's a link to Glen Fryxell's articles:

    http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

  14. #14
    PinewoodSavage 357maximum's Avatar
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    357 max/180gr+ boolits/TC contender/encores = H-LilGun/Vhit-N120/H-4227

    LilGun&N120 for full snort accurate hitter loads, and 4227 for extreme accuracy....IMHO...

    all three powerplant propellants work well for:
    RCBS 180/200gr sil
    Lee C-358-185
    NEI 358-180 swc (scary accurate with Vhit N-120)almost boring)
    Lyman 358156/358315

    I hope JohnCH's 360-220 works well also,,,time will tell when they get here...
    "Happiness is a target rich environment"


    Sarcasm is spelled with a purple.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    For me , in my Contender barrels
    2400 or H 4227 for accurcy and Little Gun for max velosity with accurcy
    Others that work well are Vit 110 and 120 , IMR 4227 , Reloader 7 , Blue dot

    I could never get H 110 or 296 to shoot as well as I thought they should
    But others swear by them

    I hunt with Little gun

    Johnch
    Yea, thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
    And I carry a SIG

  16. #16
    Boolit Master fourarmed's Avatar
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    I shot some loads this last week. The 14.5/4227/358429 produced 1220 fps and promising accuracy. The 15/4759/358429 produced a little over 1400fps and much larger groups, in spite of smaller velocity ES.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Ricochet's Avatar
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    Funny thing, how those velocity spreads don't have much relation to accuracy, at least at short range. It's more barrel harmonics there. Get way out there and the trajectory differences from velocity variation start showing up more. Got to have both that and the barrel harmonics covered.
    "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

  18. #18
    Boolit Master fourarmed's Avatar
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    Yeah, my next attempt will 15/4227 and 14/4759.

  19. #19
    Boolit Man
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    I have a Hoch mould that drops a 228 gr. kinda pointy boolit. The only thing inside the case is the GC& the lube groove,no crimp. It is set about .025 off the rifleing in a TC 10" .357 Max barrel. My fav load is 19.6 gr SR4759. It'll take rams down like they've been hit with a sledge hammer. Since only the GC and lube groove are inside the case,there is a lot of room for powder. Reloader 7 works pretty good also.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check