Plastic gas checks?

[leftiye]

If you could keep it in the neck, or use it in a straight walled case, a simple gas seal would work (if you used a suitable plastic). Like the old Alcan PGS, a cup face (hollow) down seated, and then seat the boolit on top of it. It would stop gas cutting, but sufficient lube to stop friction leading would still be needed.

Alternatively, how about cups like the Hornady (If I'm right) nyclad jackets that cover the bore riding part of the boolit?

[MT Gianni]

If we could stamp Canadian penny's flat and cup them and they could do the same to ours that might work. gianni

[leftiye]

A (then) newby once started a thread about using high temp paint as a gas check. He even found a paint, and made some, and shot them with good results (he said). I like the idea! It seems probable to me that this plastic gas sheck thing might be painted on and I'd coat the whole boolit below the ogive. Wrapping with paper patch, or teflon tape has been used for a while, both with good accuracy, and great speed without leading. Painting it on would seem much easier to me, just dip them and let dry.

[tnwill]

I work for one of the largest speciality polymer manufacturers in the US. We make some of the toughest polymers in the world. This stuff can be drilled, tapped, bent 180 deg without breaking.

I don't think dipping the bullet bases would work. Most of the polymer requires around 300 deg. C to melt, and in the precesence of oxygen, it degrades quickly.

I know we make 4x8 extruded sheets of some of the specialty polymers, and if someone has the tooling to punch out the gc's, let me know what thickness would be required. I can probably get a small product sample for you to try.

[randyrat]

Capitalism at its finest. Sure glag i don't live under the "RED BANER" I'm sure they would be priced slightly under metal GCs or slightly over if they work better. Or they could be a lot less. I'm sure they will squeeze every penny they can out of us.

[pdawg_shooter]

Why not paper patch? You can take pure lead to 2200fps and 50/50 WW and linotype to 3000. Where I work we get stacks of green bar computer paper to throw away so I get it free. No leading because the lead never touches the bore and accurcy is great.

[Blackwater]

Another thought: copper tends to "grab" onto lead in the barrel, thus increasing (according to some, at least) its efficiency as a GC material. I doubt any polymers/plastics would have this trait, right? How would this affect a plastic GC's performance???

I think the idea has merit, but I'm thinking, for now at least, that there'll be differences in the usage parameters between the gilding metal and plastic checks. Just what they'd be I'm not sure, but my intuition works pretty good most of the time. The thing about having them come off at differing times is a big concern, I think. Make them soft enough to apply easily, and they'd likely come off sooner, and MAYBE (???) more toward the muzzle, but .... I guess this is why new ideas always require field testing to get the kinks worked out, isn't it? Still, I think it is doable, especially if we don't mind some changes in the parameters within which they'd work well. Maybe lighter loads??? I dunno. Need those initial field tests, I think.

And Pat Marlin, great comments, brother. Those field tests cited above, for instance, are part of the cost of development of any GOOD product that actually works. The end price must cover this, as well as the liability insureance so VERY necessary in today's ambulance chasing climate. Then too, continual development to re-certify the product's "safety," satisfy EPA and other requirements set by the nanny gov't we serve, and so on and so on .... it's a wonder we make ANYTHING in the USA today! Even such a tiny and simple item as a plastic gas check.

And we did it all to ourselves, mostly by being short sighted and easily led, but that's a subject for another board, I guess.

[JRR]

I wonder if the liquid plastic that you can get in a can for dipping tool handles etc. would work on the base of a bullet. I bet you could dip the base, let dry and then size in standard sizer press or push through.

I think the next trip to the hardware store will start some experimenting.
Jeff

[leftiye]

Brownell's makes a gun paint that you bake on (would take the heat), and it has moly and teflon in it. Cooking would be a PITA, but no worse than heat treating, which you could do at the same time . Alternatively, you could just turn the oven off and just let them cool slowly.

[BAGTIC]

The main benefit of gas checks is that the edge of the gas check acts as a scraper ring and removes lead deposits left by the forward part of the bullet. It would more appropriately be called as bore scraper than a gas check. The lead in bores is almost all deposited by scraping like when dragging a piece of lead along a file.

A thin film of bullet lube, glue or almost anything else would protect the bullet's base from the effect of the heat.

[colombo]

Fits right in with a few thoughts I've had on this and related subjects.

A question for the injection molding guys here. Is there a device of a higher temperature capability like a glue gun for experimenting? I'd love to be able to make my own nyclads or even inject mold directly on to a base.

I've got an experiment for anyone that casts .40/10mm in a nose pour mold (I only have base pours). Slice off the bottom of a .410 wad, place it in the base of the mold, protect yourself from splatter and see if that thing bonds. I've used cutoff .410 wad bases as wads only and cut down wads as sabots in 10mm and while they eat up powder volume I've never seen plastic fouling.

I have put a dab of RTV sealer in a mold at the nose for some "spoon point" experimenting and know for a fact it can take molten lead heat but have put those experiments on the back burner for now.

I'd feel bad just sitting on this stuff when someone else could be advancing or using it.

[Sonnypie]

I predict a shortage of milk jugs in the near future.....

[tchepone]

I predict a shortage of milk jugs in the near future.....

Sonny: Milk jugs...I have already tried this, the checks form quite well but there is a memory in the plastic and they relax and will not stay on the boolit. I tried the same with waxed paper, same result. Looks like we'll have to continue to deal with Yonky until someone comes up with another material. Aluminium (the stuff Yonky sells), copper & brass all work very well. I haven't tried zinc or soft steel yet.

[Maven]

tchepone, I couldn't remember the author's name until now, else I'd have posted sooner. Be that as it may, John Haviland wrote of his experiments with various paper and plastic GC's in "Handloader" magazine several years ago. (You may want to ask Wolfe Publications about its availability.) In short, his results were less than stellar, but the plastic ones I think were worth a second look.

[tchepone]

tchepone, I couldn't remember the author's name until now, else I'd have posted sooner. Be that as it may, John Haviland wrote of his experiments with various paper and plastic GC's in "Handloader" magazine several years ago. (You may want to ask Wolfe Publications about its availability.) In short, his results were less than stellar, but the plastic ones I think were worth a second look.

Maven: Thanks for replying. You wouldn't happen to remember the date or issue of that article? I have all the Handloader magazines, in hard cover books, but don't have a decent index. All I have are the year end indexes in the January issues. I wish Wolfe would listen to me and publish just a complete index on disk. I can't see buying the complete set on disk when I already have the all the magazines. If I find it I'll post it for anyone else so interested. Thanks again.

[RKJ]

Back in the 80's I read somewhere of using Styrofoam for a plug (I don't recall exactly what they were called) the writer used clean meat trays and (for example) a .44 case to cut out the plug. I tried them, but being young and inexperienced I didn't really study them and don't recall if they worked or not. I do recall finding almost complete ones on the ground downrange but I still had quite a bit of leading. I was shooting commercial cast and the max load for 2400 so they were being pushed pretty hard.
It's not a real gas check but I might try it again to see if it works, but I'm not seeing much leading now so it might not tell me anything.

[Maven]

tchepone, No, unfortunately I can't recall the date, but possibly within the last 4 or 5 years, and late Spring - late Summer issue.

[tchepone]

tchepone, No, unfortunately I can't recall the date, but possibly within the last 4 or 5 years, and late Spring - late Summer issue.

Maven: Got it! The article is by John Haviland as you said. It is in Handloader #255, the October-November 2008 issue. He covers different materials and rifle & pistol calibers. It is an interesting read. That said, I think much of what was covered in the article has been rehashed here on the forum a few times. For anyone interested in obtaining a copy, I'm sure it is still available from Wolfe Publishing, as a back issue.

I'm not sure about the legality of copying and posting the article here on the forum. I would not be able to do that anyway because mine are all hard cover bound. Perhaps someone with the complete set of Handloader issues on DVD may be able to do it.

I wouldn't consider Haviland's use of different materials as "gas checks" in the true sense of the term, but more like an "over powder" wad that is glued to the base of a bollit. Even his use of aluminum was just a flat disk and not a skirted check as created by the FreeChex and Checkmaker tools. His use was more likened to the Jim Harvey Prot-X-Bore Zinc Washers of years ago. It might be food for thought more than anything else, but interesting anyway.

Thanks for getting me in the ballpark. I really didn't want to search through 27 books of magazines.

[helice]

I have no idea where this idea came from but I was under the impression that those meat tray plugs were to compress powder charges - take up space in straight wall cases.??? I apologize if I'm hi-jacking.