A post I found on Freedom guns

[44man]

Crappy Freedom Arms?

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Myself and Dennis up here have had more than several "monday" freedom arms, lemons if ya will!

A few years back I had an ongoing disagreement with Bob Baker of FA on more than several boards and fired up the local FA rep at the local FA dealer when I showed with with 7 or 8 examples of screwed up $2000.00 guns for all to see!

Short version IMO is that when the perfect gun compay FA was handed over to the spoiled rich kid/son, quality took a serious dive.
No doubt some here recall all this crap.
FA throats have always been an issue as have pinched bores, what many gun types fail to recognise is that MOST FA owners rarely if ever shoot their prized (as well as over priced) FAs and an even lesser amount of FA owners are capable of shooting said prized FA to it's supposed legendary accuracy.
The good news is FA is capable of a factory repair in MOST cases.
Deep breath.........ahhhhhhh.

[mtngunr]

Would that original post have somehow originated in Alaska?.......if so, there's one particular individual up that way who under various names (Monte is the most infamous) has trashed more gun boards to extinction, trashed more products with outright lies, and tried to come across as THE expert in all things handguns than I would have believed possible, and this has been ongoing for years.....while about the only thing I know him to be expert on would be blowing up handguns with insane overloads and then claiming either the gun was defective or made of cast steel......I know quite a few EXTREMELY serious shooters, of the type of seriousness normally associated with names like Keith, McGivern, Skelton, several are widely published while most putter on in relative obscurity known only by their equally serious peers, and they ALL remain staunch supporters of Freedom Arms AND Baker.....my few dealings with Baker have shown him to be a man ready to address any issue you might have with one of guns, and he'll freely admit to any shortcomings or duds and take immediate corrective action...........one thing I hate about the internet is how folk will take a quote by some "expert" they know only from self-reputation with the typed word, and then broadcast it worldwide until it becomes another "known" thing on the electronic gossip column that is the world wide web......

[fourarmed]

Look at the revolver category results of any major IHMSA match, and you will see how FA revolvers stack up in accuracy against all others.

[Old Ironsights]

Before I sold mine to afford to move to where I still had no job...

I was getting quite remarkable accuracy from mine.

With the .45ACP cylinder I could hit, offhand, an 18" gong at 185 yds every time.

My 350grLBTWFN 31grH110 load as good (for me) to about 6" at 100yds. Not spectacular unless unless you consider the amount of recoil that load generates.

I really loved that gun. Bought it used in 1991 and should have never let it go.

[ktw]

I agree with Old Ironsights.

I have the Mdl 97 45C/45ACP and like it a lot. It has a far better trigger on it that any other rifle or handgun in my collection. I do have an Anschutz 22 with a triggger that comes close...

The only problem I've ever had with it involved an internal part breaking (hammer wouldn't engage at full cock). When I called up FA for a replacement part they asked me to send it back rather than take it apart myself. They fixed it and had it back to me in 7 days.

-ktw

[lovedogs]

Perhaps my experience with Freedom Arms was rare. I've never been able to handle or shoot one of their revolvers and this is the reason why....

Many years ago I was stationed down in Wy. while working for USFWS. I rat-holed my hard-earned money until I had enough to buy one of their field-grade .44's. When I got in their neighborhood I stopped in to look at, handle, and buy one of their guns.

There was a very unfriendly old gal behind a counter when I visited their establishment. I asked if they allowed tours of the plant. Nope! Well, okay. Then I asked to see one of their fine guns because I'd saved my money and wanted to handle one to see which I would purchase. She grumpily pointed me to a glass-topped gun case and said I could see them there. When I clarified I needed to hold one she told me that wasn't allowed. "We don't allow people to come in here and play with our guns, " she said. When I explained I had the money in my pocket to buy one and I'd driven half-way across the state to get one but needed to handle one first it didn't phase her attitude.

Being a gentleman I said nothing. But I didn't let the door hit me in the butt as I left, either. If I plan on spending that kind of cash for a gun I want to be able to see what I'm getting. I'm a die-hard Ruger fan now and don't even look in the general direction of Freedom Arms guns.

[45r]

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE NEW ONES, BUT MY MODEL 83 MADE IN 1988 IS SO ACCURATE I WOULD'T SELL IT OR TRADE IT FOR ANY OTHER REVOLVER.I hav'nt seen very many revolvers that can shoot inch and a half groups at 50 yards with iron sights for me.Some come close but they will loosen up long before that model 83 does.They were very considerate when I ever asked them about anything I wanted for my gun and I really like their new fiber optic front sight with a v-notch rear blade.My 454 kicks hard but I bet a scoped 41 mag would shoot inch and a half at 100 yards like ones I've seen in magazine tests.I should scope my 454 and see if I can shoot that good.I see most guys at the few sillywet matchs i've been to using model 83's and they win more than the rest of the revolver shooters put together.Maybe I'll go out again this summer and see if anything has changed.Glad I got my 80's vintage F/A if the new ones aren't as good.Hope they're still as good cause I'd like to get another one in 357 if I can afford it.

[Lloyd Smale]

you can get lucky and get a real good Ford and you can get unlucky and get a bad porche. That doesnt make the ford better then the porche. Every body that makes anything has a problem at one time or another. Its just that when it happens to someone who buys a FA they feel like theyve been bent over. Id about bet a dime to a dollar that any problem ANYONE had with a fa gun would have been taken care of asap by there service dept.

[dubber123]

I guess I got lucky with my 4 year old .475., Screwed together perfectly straight, cylinder throats are all the same, and on a good day will go into 1" at 50 yds. with iron sights. The trigger isn't fantastic, but not bad either. For the money, I'd be peeved at a lemon, but fully expect they'd take care of it. I will have more, and hope my luck holds out. Some people tout Rugers, but I got 3 bums in a row. Would I buy another? Yep, because they took care of their mistakes. For 2,000$ I would expect VERY few mistakes.

[m stevenson]

My experience is only one example. I bought a new M-97 41mag 4 1/4" almost 2 years ago. It has proven to be the most accurate and pleasing firearm I've ever owned. By a long, long shot. I like my Ruger's, but love my Freedom arms, and will buy more when I can.
Mark

[44man]

John called Freedom today and they told him to shoot a bunch of the same loads and it will get more accurate. How many of us are dumb enough to believe that? What do they want John to do, fill the oversize bore with copper or lead?
I have posted in a lot of sites, asked questions, talked to my gunsmith friend and a lot of guys at my club and get as many answers about bad guns as I do good ones. Freedom is not infallable and does turn out some junk along with super accurate ones. They are so expensive, you should be able to slug the bore and throats before laying down money.
I can't make any excuses for a company that should air gage every gun before putting it in a box. A bad barrel should be tossed before it gets near a frame.
I am afraid to plunk down money for one because I am prone to get lemons.

[dubber123]

I would get a little more serious with them on the phone, maybe demand to speak to Bob Baker. If the barrel is that far oversized, it's never going to shoot, and they should just rebarrel it. I too am prone to getting lemons, in the last 5 years I have gotten bad: Marlins, (1), Rugers, (3), Springfields, (1), Winchesters, (1), Remingtons, (1), Taurus, (1), (And that will NEVER happen again!), and probably a few others I can't remember right now. I will say again for 2,000$, you should have to look REAL hard to find ANYTHING wrong, much less a serious mis-match like this. Send it back, be a jerk if you have to, they deserve it.

[mtngunr]

And I'm still waiting on an answer to where the first quote came from......and this stuff about FA telling you to shoot it in sounds so uncharteristic I'll.....I'll just keep my mouth shut.....for now.....but it appears there's an agenda or axe grinding going on here, to my eyes....a proper way to deal with what appears to be unsatisfactory mechandise is to FIRST box up the gun, ship it to the maker with enclosed test targets, give them a chance to make it right (if it is wrong in the first place)......THEN, if the owner is unsatisfied with results or the answers, he can start airing out dirty laundry.....but NOT before........I have no patience whatsoever with folk trashing companies and products first......NONE.....fully half of such posts are bogus, and written by folk whose motivations escape me.....except perhaps attention......

edited in PS- please provide a link to that original post you found, as searches don't turn it up, even when quoted in its entirety....

[danski26]

My model 83 is the best revolver i have ever owned. I understand how getting a lemon can sour you though, as i bought a lemon S&W 629 a couple years ago.

Why don't you invite the owner of freedom arms to post on this thread? I would be interested what the other half of the story is.

I wonder if they suggested trying to shoot a bunch of the same ammo thinking you did not know how to shoot well and the practice might help.

If you are really so fed up with the pistol i will take it off you hands. I have a blackhawk made in the 70's i would trade you.

[44man]

Sorry Danski26, it is not my gun, it is my friend's. If you look at my avitar, you will see my typical 50 yd groups. To be accused of not being able to shoot by Freedom is a low blow. We shoot revolvers to 500 meters with accuracy that turns a lot of rifle shooters blue. We have seen many pack up and leave after watching us.
I expect nothing less from a Freedom and the owner can post all he wants to. If he lets a lemon slip through just to make money, he is wrong. They are not factory guns with loose tolerances, they are hand made, beautiful custom guns and every one should be perfect.
I marvel at the beauty and feel of this gun. To work the action is a wonderful thing. But to drop the hammer on live rounds is disappointing to say the least. I was expecting sub 1" 50 yd groups but it just sprays the backstop.
I would never expect to send a gun to Linebaugh or any of the other custom makers to return it with less accuracy then an out of box Ruger, would you?

[Fiveshooter]

I have 17 FA revolvers right now and even made the mistake of selling a couple more. Some of them have a few thousand heavy loaded rounds put through them. They all shoot very good. I never had a problem with any FA revolver. I can't answer as to the quality of thier factory service as I have never needed a repair on one. I did send in a .50 AE for a cylinder in .500 WE, an octagon barrel and micarta grips.
The gun was returned faster than promised and the workmanship was nothing less than perfect. I guess anybody can make a lemon but if I got one I think I would send it back for repair, rework or even replacement. My bet is they would make it right. Given my own experience with the guns I would have to say that a lemon from FA would be a rare exception and not a common thing.

[Fiveshooter]

Would that original post have somehow originated in Alaska?.......if so, there's one particular individual up that way who under various names (Monte is the most infamous) has trashed more gun boards to extinction, trashed more products with outright lies, and tried to come across as THE expert in all things handguns than I would have believed possible, and this has been ongoing for years.....while about the only thing I know him to be expert on would be blowing up handguns with insane overloads and then claiming either the gun was defective or made of cast steel......I know quite a few EXTREMELY serious shooters, of the type of seriousness normally associated with names like Keith, McGivern, Skelton, several are widely published while most putter on in relative obscurity known only by their equally serious peers, and they ALL remain staunch supporters of Freedom Arms AND Baker.....my few dealings with Baker have shown him to be a man ready to address any issue you might have with one of guns, and he'll freely admit to any shortcomings or duds and take immediate corrective action...........one thing I hate about the internet is how folk will take a quote by some "expert" they know only from self-reputation with the typed word, and then broadcast it worldwide until it becomes another "known" thing on the electronic gossip column that is the world wide web......

mtngunr,
I get the same feeling that Monty "may" be the author of that first post.
It sure reads like some of his posts I have read in the past. I remember seeing a few posts about a short barreled .500 Linebaugh that he built claiming velocities that border on the realm of impossible. As you can see by the picture below showing what one of his FA revolvers did to him you can tell he really is an expert in high power big bore handguns LOL...

[Lloyd Smale]

one of these days ill have to tell you the story of my one and only bfr. A 480 that was a total ***! and talk about poor customer relations!!!

John called Freedom today and they told him to shoot a bunch of the same loads and it will get more accurate. How many of us are dumb enough to believe that? What do they want John to do, fill the oversize bore with copper or lead?
I have posted in a lot of sites, asked questions, talked to my gunsmith friend and a lot of guys at my club and get as many answers about bad guns as I do good ones. Freedom is not infallable and does turn out some junk along with super accurate ones. They are so expensive, you should be able to slug the bore and throats before laying down money.
I can't make any excuses for a company that should air gage every gun before putting it in a box. A bad barrel should be tossed before it gets near a frame.
I am afraid to plunk down money for one because I am prone to get lemons.

[Woodtroll]

44man-

This has been asked already, but perhaps I've missed your reply, if you made one: May we ask where you found the original post? I'd be interested in reading the rest of the thread.

Thanks, Regan

[44man]

I was just doing a search and read on a pile of forums that I don't belong to when I found it. I just copied and pasted.