Lyman round balls.

[longbow]

goodsteel:

If you use a donut wad under the undersize balls they should do okay. Or your cupped leather wads should also keep the ball centered.

Another option for the 0.675's is to use some paper to take up the slop (or cardboard as excess650 did). I just roll a piece to form a tube then insert that before the ball, or use cross paper strips over the mouth of the hull and push the ball in so they fold around the ball as it is seated into the shotcup. Works for me.

Did you recover any wads? They can tell a story too. I have often found blown gas seals, extruded top of cushion and/or shredded petals. When the wad is damaged accuracy usually suffers.

Sounds like you have a couple of good loads there though. The 0.675's and 0.685's should do best in shotcups. You might find different shotcup materials have an effect too. I have had poor results using Win AA Red wads. They are quite thick and soft. The harder Winchester white and yellow have worked better for me.

I had thought the 0.735 RB's would be the best for me, and they did well, but I did get a few fliers that opened groups up some. I recovered a few balls that showed an uneven band around the ball from bore contact so figured that was from rolling into the barrel from the forcing cone. The same loads shot very well from a rifled gun though.

Not sure how the ball would get spinning as it hit the forcing cone but I can't think of any other reason for the uneven bore fit unless a wad tilted as it drove the ball down the barrel. I loaded these over 1/2" hard card wads though so... ? Wad column is very important!

So far with balls and slugs I have had better results using shotcups so have continued along that path.

I need some range time and get some more shooting done though!

Longbow

[MBTcustom]

I recovered quite a few wads. They looked perfect. There was nothing to indicate that they had tried to wrap around the ball at all, and the petals were in good shape.
I wonder about the .675s. Having that COW under them, I figure that it probably wedged up between the ball and the wad and centered it pretty well. Those groups would have been a whole lot tighter if I had decent sights on the gun, but as it was I built a rear sight out of plumbers epoxy putty and used the bead as it was, so I had a huge front sight that was very hard to be precise with even at 50 yards. Besides that, I was on a hill, using a 2" sapling for support. Not exactly a sandbag rest. I was vaguely aware that I was hitting close to where I was aiming with the .675s, the .735s were a little confusing, and the .665s were just not working. That's OK though, I want to use the weight of the projectile to my advantage so the heavier the better. I have high hopes for the .685s.

[Flinchrock]

Go to loadbooks.com,,,their shotshell manual has 10000 loads. not real expensive, just got mine, haven't had time to look through it yet.

[MBTcustom]

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/produ...7#productChart
Cabela's has it on sale.
Not bad for $6.99. I may look into it. Thanks for the tip!

[excess650]

I took the 20" 12ga double to the range with my .615" RB loads again. 4 of the first 6 shots (3R, 3L) made a ragged hole. The other 2 were high/ low 1" left of the hole, and both of those were the L barrel and this with just a front bead. The load is more pleasant to shoot than a 1-1/8oz heavy target load, so I'm happy with this result.

The load: OLDER style WW AA case, F209 primer, 20.0gr Clays, Federal FS0 wad, .615" round ball with a 9/16" x 1-15/16" .037" thick strip or tablet back in the circumference of the shotcup, fold crimped. This is a snug push fit down my unchoked bores.

*for reference, the 345gr roundball is just over 3/4oz*

I shot a (15) .31" roundball load (between 0 and #1) out of the same gun and thought it broke my knuckle. At 6-1/4# its a fast handling handful.

[excess650]

I managed to locate a .678" RB mold, and its on the way. Hopefully they will be a good fit in one of my choices of plastic shotcups so as to group accurately without a lot of bother. My rifled 870 needs a good RB load.

[longbow]

I got some very good results with 0.735" RB in a borrowed Remington 870 with rifled barrel so the round balls do work in that 1:36" twist.

If you get a good fit and maybe a tough shotcup that should be a nice combination and easy to load.

I have been leaning towards the 0.678" RB myself but so far I just have smoothbores.

I hope it works out for you. Please post results either way.

Longbow

[excess650]

I have a Lee .690 mold, but the ball/wad combinations I've tried are too tight. I did load a few in a FS3 wads with the petals trimmed back to 1/4 original length. I made a shotcup from .015" cardboard and it fits inside the remaining petals. I'll try these in my smoothbore and see how they print.

[Cap'n Morgan]

How do I make those thick compression wads? You know the ones that are dark brown fibrous material?

Maybe you could use paper mache?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=122612

With your skills it would be a simple task of making a press-mold for a wad with a concave top to match the ball. For a more solid wad you could add a nitro card in the bottom and perhaps replace the water in the paper mache pulp with some sort of glue. I've been planning on trying to make such wads myself, but am always short of time it seems.

[MBTcustom]

You shouldn't have told me that! Now I'm going to have to try it!

[longbow]

I have thought of doing much the same thing using moist COW or cornmeal to make dished shotcup inserts... just haven't got to it yet.

I like the slightly undersize balls so the benefit is just dropping in a dished insert, drop in a ball then a scoop of loose COW to pack around the sides of the ball so it doesn't move. Quicker and easier than patching with paper strips which is what I have been doing.

excess650:

I have had the same problem with 0.690" balls in my smoothbores. I have tried several different shotcups but even those that seem to fit okay wind up with sheared petals. BPI lists recipes for 0.690" RB in one of their shotcups so it must work and others report good results so I am guessing I just haven't found the right combination yet.

Longbow

[excess650]

<quote
I have had the same problem with 0.690" balls in my smoothbores. I have tried several different shotcups but even those that seem to fit okay wind up with sheared petals. BPI lists recipes for 0.690" RB in one of their shotcups so it must work and others report good results so I am guessing I just haven't found the right combination yet.

Longbow quote>

Longbow,
Can you tell me which BPI shotcup they list? Too, I'm curious as to which of their thicker (other than lead shot) shotcups would work with smalled diameter RBs.

[shotman]

Check your rem 870 rifled barrel first . they vary, mine is .727, a .735 would be very tight. Some are as large as .736. I had a .728 made and it works good.
found that if you take the fiber wads and a 5/8 drill bit you can make a very good dimmple for ball to rest in .. If you have a drill press go to lowest speed. Hand works good and do while watching the news ---takes away the urge to throw things
AS a foot note ball of .735 is not for a shot cup

[excess650]

I never actually slugged my 870 rifled barrel, but I did shoot some .735" RBs and .735" boolits from it. The RB would have a shorter bearing surface than either of the (2) bands on my boolits, but they were cast soft (25-1). I did see the extractor cut impression on the case head of my AA cases, so know it was making plenty of pressure. At 605gr recoil was pretty stout, so made load development a chore that I didn't look forward to.

My double is 6-1/4# vs the closer to 7-1/4# of the 870, so the double will not see any of that heavy stuff. I shot ONE round (15 pellets .313") buckshot through the double and thought I broke a knuckle. I'm gonna back that down to 9 or 12 pelelts, and try for a fairly tight pattern vs lots of pellets, velocity and recoil.

[longbow]

The rifled 870 I borrowed measured 0.727" groove diameter and I had no trouble with the 0.735" RB's. I recovered a couple and they showed a nice rifled band around the equator.

These were loaded over a plastic gas seal and hard card wad column which so far has given me best accuracy with the 0.735" RB's.

I'll look up that BPI shotcup later on after I go plow snow... again! Winter was supposed to be over or at least the heavy snowfalls but noooo, not here!

Longbow

[MBTcustom]

That's funny there Longbow, here, we haven't realy had a winter to speak of. It's supposed to be ice and snow and shivering this time of year but its about 60 degrees outside right now. I dread the heat and mosquitoes we are in for this year come summer time!

[longbow]

Well, we weren't having much of a winter. Fairly cold but not a lot of snow and I live in the snow belt.

We normally have a couple of feet of snow on the lawn in the winter but this year I had to scrape up snow into berms so I could plant fireworks at New Years. However, it warmed up and started snowing after New Years and we have had probably 18" or so of late snow.

It started snowing yesterday and I plowed about 3" off the driveway last night and will be doing the same today.

Unfortunately, it is also warming up so it will be wet, heavy, slushy, snow. It normally snows at around freezing or a few degrees colder here, then clears up and gets colder so the snow stays dry and fluffy. That I don't mind but this time we got a dump of damp snow and it is now warming up above freezing today but the forecast is for -8 degrees C (about 23 degrees F) tomorrow so all the melting snow will turn to a skating rink! That I don't like!

Also, this unpredictable, fickle weather is keeping me from shooting which is worse! I get set to go shooting then we get a big dump of snow so I wind up plowing and cleaning up instead of shooting.

I am glad I bought a snowblower a couple of years ago! I spent 2 weeks around Christmas time 3 or 4 years ago shoveling snow twice a day every day then it tapered off to once a day for a while. I decided I had enough. It still takes time with the snowblower but it is faster and a lot easier so I go do the neighbour lady's driveway too.

Longbow

[longbow]

excess650:

The BPI slug loading info only lists two wads for 0.690" RB:

- LB12 which is a brush wad with no petals but cupped top
- HCD24 + 1/8" 20 ga. cork ~ this one is a shotcup

Also, it seems to me that the Federal 12S3 has been posted as having thin tough petals. Never tried either of those.

My old Lyman slug recipes all state to use Winchester or Remington wads with petals cut off. That has been, for me, very inaccurate. I have tried Claybuster, Winchester AA Red and Pacific Versalite all with poor results. The Claybuster has thin petals and seemed to fit the bore okay but still didn't work for me.

That's all I got.

Longbow

[MBTcustom]

I went to the range today and tried out the new shells I loaded in post #38.
Hodgdon must realy reduce the published load data! These were supposed to be maximum charges but they were still tame compared to the 1oz federal slugs bought from the store. Oh well, I dont need to knock my shoulder out of socket just to get a ball down range.
The .675s accuracy went away with the heavier charge of powder. The group opened up like the .735s did last time.
Here's the group:

However, the .685s where awesome! recoil was manageable, and accuracy was good considering.

I think I'm going to linger on the .685s for a while. They definitely show potential.

[excess650]

My Lyman .678 RB mould was in the mail today, so I fired up the pot and started casting. They drop .678"-.680". I have a variety of wads on hand, so checked 'em.

Federal FS0 .734"-.738" white wad for 3/4oz loads
*Federal FC1 .728"-.729" white with red base for 1-1/8oz
*Federal FS3 .730"-.732" pink for 1-1/8oz
**Federal FS4 .731"-.734" brown for 1-1/4oz
*Win AA12F114 .727"-.728" yellow
*Win AA12R .734"-.735" red

* indicates a .125" 20ga card in the bottom of the shotcup
** indicates (2) .125" 20ga cards

The smallest of these was too tight to push through my 12ga double bores from the breech, although they would go ~10" before stopping when pushed with a 5/8" harwood dowell. Likewise, the muzzle of a 20" cutoff 870 barrel appeared to be a similar .725". I have hopes of these surviving the trip down the bores and am going to load some and try 'em.

UPDATE: I just finished some test loads in old style AA cases with 18gr Red Dot and F209 primers.

FC1 + .125 20ga card + .680 RB perfect fold crimp
WWAA12F114 + .125 20ga card + .680 RB perfect fold crimp
FS3 + 1/8" felt 20ga filler wad + .680 RB perfect fold crimp
FS3 + 2 12ga OS wads + .680 RB perfect fold crimp

The FC1 and WWAA12F114 (yellow) seem to be just about ideal in the old style (compression formed) AA cases. The 18gr Red Dot was just to start, and I'm sure that more volume of powder can be added and still get a good crimp. I need to see if these will survive going down the smooth and rifled bores before getting to carried away.