Freedom 97, .357 wall hanger

[44man]

I have posted before about the poor groups we get. I loaded a bunch of loads and shot as good as I could at 50 yd's, both Creedmore and sandbags. I am using the Lee 158 gr that I removed the bevel base on so it weighs 160 gr's. The patterns are the same we got with every factory load and jacketed bullet.
The first thing I did was clean the gun spotless and lightly oil everything. I used two different small hole gages in the throats plus expanded lead slugs and they are all a perfect .358". So far so good.
I then pushed a slug through the bore and found it is .0005" tighter at the threads. Then I expanded 5 slugs, one at a time, at the end of the muzzle using a rod against a thick, long piece of Micarta on the recoil shield. I could pull the slugs from the bore like this.
The bore measures .359 to .3595 depending on the groove measured and every slug was the same. The slugs pushed all the way through the tight spot measured .3585" to .3595. No wonder it shoots like crap! The barrel is oversize and larger then the throats plus the bore is constricted at the threads.
Guys, this is a $2000 gun! So much for saying they are built better then a Ruger.
Here is the picture. The center target has 2 of the slugs on it.
I had to tanspose the holes because a lot of the shots were off the target.

[only1asterisk]

Have you contacted Freedom Arms about it?

David

[scrapcan]

Come up with your next steps to make the gun truely a $2000 shooter?

Just curious as to what you are going to do. Surely you are not just going to keep passing it to the next unsuspecting shooter.

[44man]

No, I would never do anything like that. The gun belongs to my friend and I am going to tell him to send it back. There is no excuse for making a gun like that for the price.

[dubber123]

Send that thing back. No excuse for that in a 400$ gun, much less 2,000$. I have a F/A in .475, and it's the nicest revolver I've ever handled. I did read about a fellow in Guns and Ammo that had a similar situation with a .454. He had the throats opened up, and it became a sub-MOA gun. My best group with mine is .8" at 50 yds. (iron sights). F/A guns are known to be superbly accurate, and I would settle for no less. I might mention in your letter to them you mentioned this on the internet, looking for help. I bet they bend over backwards to keep you quiet. Bad publicity you know. Good luck.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'd try factory loads and send those samples to Freedom.

[Dale53]

Kind of makes one truly appreciate Rugers with their "on occasion" too small throats. $35.00 to a custom gunsmith and they shoot a treat! Myself, I have had a number of Ruger single and double actions. I must be extremely fortunate as everyone of my Rugers are sized correctly and shoot like it.

Dale53

[44man]

The problem with getting the throats opened is that the barrel is so much oversize no bullet/boolit will fit.

[dubber123]

I agree, and you shouldn't have to go to lengths like that for a common caliber like .357. Brian pearce had one of these a year or two ago, (apparently a good one), for testing, and he ended up keeping it. He was after 1" groups at 100 yds. He came close, (very) but said he needed more experimenting. He was having Veral cut him a mold. Send this one back, and hopefully you'll end up in the same boat as him.

[Sven Dufva]

No, I would never do anything like that. The gun belongs to my friend and I am going to tell him to send it back. There is no excuse for making a gun like that for the price.

How is the test target who comes with the gun. What size of group?

I have a FA 357 mod 97 my self and the only limitation whit that gun is the owner.

[lar45]

You could do a Taylor throat on the barrel. Bore the rifleing out for the length of the frame. Normally it's for the bullet length I believe. But that would still leave the throats being too small for the barrel.
Freedom Arms should compensate you for all your trouble proveing their gun was built wrong. It won't happen I'm sure, but it would be nice. Think of all the ammo, components, bullets, powder, primers... that were expended when the gun was a Lemon to start with. I would atleast talley all that up with the letter to them. When I had Win factory 454 ammo split the cases, they sent me some Winchester bucks to spend on new ammo.

Magnum Research should make a 357 BFR. As long as I'm wishing, how about a smaller frame to go with it and a Bisley grip? For a light handy packing gun.

[44man]

Magnum Research sure likes the larger calibers. I don't see them stepping down to smaller ones even though some would be nice.
They are not as tight or finished as good as a Freedom but all I have measured are right on the money and are rifled correctly for the caliber, they all shoot too.
The most amazing is still the big, loose, Desert Eagle that shoots like crazy. I will never believe that thing! With the right load I think it can approach 1/2" groups at 50 yd's. I won't buy one because I can't shoot cast from it.

[mtngunr]

crossposted from his other FA trashing thread....

And I'm still waiting on an answer to where the first quote came from......and this stuff about FA telling you to shoot it in sounds so uncharteristic I'll.....I'll just keep my mouth shut.....for now.....but it appears there's an agenda or axe grinding going on here, to my eyes....a proper way to deal with what appears to be unsatisfactory mechandise is to FIRST box up the gun, ship it to the maker with enclosed test targets, give them a chance to make it right (if it is wrong in the first place)......THEN, if the owner is unsatisfied with results or the answers, he can start airing out dirty laundry.....but NOT before........I have no patience whatsoever with folk trashing companies and products first......NONE.....fully half of such posts are bogus, and written by folk whose motivations escape me.....except perhaps attention......

edited in PS- please provide a link to that original post you found, as searches don't turn it up, even when quoted in its entirety....

[44man]

Not so at all. I have been wanting to buy several for myself but got scared off. I want others to tell their experiences. I have just had too much trouble with Dan Wessons and TC's over the years and do not expect such problems from Freedom. I have always considered them the ultimate revolver.
When anyone has trouble with ANY gun, they should post it. We should not have to accept shoddy products no matter what the cost.
How many of you have run down Lee molds and Lee leak-O-matic pots? A lot of you run down Ruger's and hundreds of other makes. Is this any different?
Does the name "Freedom" make them infallable?
To keep quiet and silently send a bad gun back does not aid a single one of us.
Mtngunr, why are we here? Don't tell me you have never complained about a bad product!
Freedom might make it right, but their first response sucks. They should have told John to send it right back.

[Merc41]

Well for what my 2 cents is worth, I love my FA 83 in .475 linebaugh. Although, if mine performed like the one you have 44man, I would be hollering at FA for sure.

[MGySgt]

I just got some propaganda er I mean flyers from Magnum Research - They will make any caliber you want for about $1,600 and about 4 week wait.

My new 480/475 with 400gr loads in the 1200 FPS range couldn't raise the rear sight high enough to get a good POA/POI.

I sent them an e-mail - they sent me a new front sight that looks low enough so I can get the impact I want.

Ruger - in the last few months I have dealt with 2 NIB Rugers, Blackhawk 45 colt bisley 7.5in barrel. The throats were a little small and the bore had a constriction at the barrel/frame. Opened up the throats with some 800 grit spun on a wood dowel to .0005 over the starting diamenter of the barrel (.451-). Firelapped it with 36 rounds - Shoots great or about as good as my buddy can shoot.

Just this last weekend my son brings bown a NIB Super Blackhawk Hunter model. Stainless no less. Throats - .431+ bore .4295 with a constriction - 66 rounds latter of fire lapping - throats .4318, bore .4299 and a polished bore. This one shoots a heck of a lot better then I do. with in 10 rounds of sight in my son was hitting a 8X8 steel plate at 109 yrds. He can't shoot that good!

2 Rugers and a day's work and they both are tack drivers.

BUT I STILL LIKE MY BFR .475 MORE!!!!!

Drew

[44man]

My BFR .475 is one I will never part with---period. The BFR 45-70 either! Out of the box, first loads amazed me. A little trigger work and they are even better.
The best part is they are wonderful to deal with.

[lar45]

I just got a new Ruger stainless Bisley 357 mag with 5.5" barrel. Just picked it up today, don't know when I'll get a chance to shoot it. One of the first things I noticed was it has a little blemish in the metal at the back of the cylinder on the outside chamfer. It will probably stone up okay. I checked the throats and they were all .358". It was a dial caliper, but the needle stopped on the 8 every time. I slugged the bore at the muzzle and it is .357" right on the nose. I couldn't locate a soft lead slug to push through the barrel. The barrel cylinder gap is 4 thou. I was hopeing for a little tighter, but that shouldn't be too bad.

Magnum Research will fit an extra cylinder to the BFR for around $300. I was thinking of getting one in 50AE and getting the extra cylinder in 500S&W x 1.4". Total price from them brand new would have been around $1350. I found a slightly used 475 BFR on Gunbroker at about 1/2 the cost so I got it instead.
You can get front sights for the BFR in 3 different heights. Their listed on their site someplace.
The only gun I've handled that I think is better built than the BFR is my 357 max Silver Seville.

[Bass Ackward]

I think that the biggest mistake people in the gun world make is that you get better quality if something costs more. Or if it is custom. I have seen guns that were made by individuals that would qualify to use the word custom that were sloppier than any factory you might get. Or that you pay for looks.

You can get great quality Handies and poor quality Whetherby's. Good quality Rugers and obviously poor performing FA. The difference is the odds. Everyone makes mistakes.

Want flawless quality control? Now you have a $2500 gun.

That should just be a barrel change. I agree, send it back with targets.

Just don't tell them who you are. They might say that you need a moon observation devise mounted on it before you can shoot it.

[mtngunr]

Mtngunr, why are we here? Don't tell me you have never complained about a bad product!

I am not here to attempt to destroy a company by driving off customers, that's for sure......I have complained about a gun, after giving the S&W company several attempts at fixing the gun's tendency to break firing pins.....I did NOT post "crappy S&W posts" before S&W ever saw the gun back, and I did NOT post such afterwards, either......I KNEW I had an uncharacteristic lemon that had a mislocated hammer or mislocated firing pin port whose only remedy was complete replacement of the gun.....a gun that was out-of-print, unfortunately.....

And I am still waiting for the source of that "me and Dennis" FA trashing post that you say you found somewhere....are you gonna provide a link, or are you going to leave me/us wondering if you might be the original author of ill-repute?