The Russian 7.62 Nagant Revolver

[tinkerer]

I started forming Nagant Revolver brass out of .223 rifle brass last year, but got stuck at the "turn down the belt you just made at the case web" step. Maybe I'll resurrect that project early this spring when it's still too cold and wet to go shooting, but good weather is on the horizon. It shouldn't take much of a lathe; a drill press and a flat file will probably do it. They should be a lot more durable than using .32-20 brass, and you can make them closer to the right length. (Use .30 Carbine dies to form, size, and to crimp)

Has anyone tried shooting .32 ACP's in the original cylinder? It should work, but that's an awfully long jump for the bullet.

Greetings,

I encourage you to go ahead with your project. I bought one of these revolvers a few months ago, and I've been having fun fabricating brass with .223 cases. (I used Lee 30 m1 dies).

I got the revolver from Cabelas, and when I looked at it they warned me that they didn't have the ammunition. That didn't bother me, since I planned on making the stuff anyway. I happen to have a lot of once fired .223 brass lying around, and I'd heard you can make 7.62x38r brass from it. After I'd successfully made some 7. 62 brass, I found I had a problem loading it, and I thought I'd explain how I found a solution.

I got to the same point you did ( .223 brass reformed, belt at base). It was pretty easy for me to remove the belt, because I have a lathe. I think a drill press setup would work just fine. I'd recommend supporting the base of the brass somehow, maybe with a decapping pin inserted through the primer pocked hole to keep the brass from wobbling.

The problem I ran into was in trying to use .312 bullets in the reformed .223 cases. When I seated the bullet, I got a nasty bulge in the case, and the round wouldn't chamber. I figured "no problem", I'll just resize (with 30 m1 die). Well, yes, the round chambered. But I pulled the bullet, just to see what was going on, and the portion of the bullet that had been in the case was swagged down to a diameter that was smaller than the groove diameter. The things would just rattle out of the bore, if I tried to shoot them (I didn't).

I was a bit puzzled at this point, because I'd read a number of posts that talk about using .312 bullets. I don't know for sure, but I think the 32-20 brass is thinner that the .223 brass, so you can use .312 bullets in 32-20 brass, and still be okay. I don't really know, since I've only worked with the .223 brass.

What I ended up trying was reaming the case mouth of my resized .223 brass. I used a 5/16 reamer (5/16=.3125, you can find it at FastenAll, about 12 bucks). I ran the reamer into the .223 brass only as deep as the bullet I used (.312 plated RN).

I've read a lot of posts on how to get a crimp that duplicates the factory crimp. I had no trouble at all using the Lee 30 m1 die. I seated the bullet first, and later ran the crimp with the Lee die. It left a larger diameter at the case mouth than factory brass, but in my revolver (Tula 1939) the stuff worked just fine, gas seal and all.

It may not be possible to ream your cases in a drill press, I don't know. but if not, I think you can load .308 bullets in your reformed .223 brass.

[leadshooter5]

I managed to pick up 6 boxes of Fiocchi ammo for $15 each at a gunshow, so I dropped plans to reload. The Fiocchi shoots right to the point of aim at 25 yds, but about half the cases split. Because of the gas seal, the gun stays completely clean except for running a patch thru the bore. Hoot to shoot!!

[olgandalf]

My Nagant was a Christmas gift, along with four boxes of Aguila 32 S&W long, from my non-gun-loving wife (!) After putting most of them through the Nagant, I've reloaded the brass twice with 78 gr boolits from Tn Valley. The brass swelled with first use, but none have ever split. Hits a foot wide log at 20 feet. I made some brass from 223 until I could get 32-20, which I prefer. So far I haven't accidentally crushed any of the 32-20.

[floyd]

Quite old thread, but anyway...

I just love my Russian 6“ SA target revolver TOZ 36 because it is an incredibly accurate piece of steel with an exceptionally smooth trigger. It has absolutely nothing in common with an old Nagant revolver except from using the same cartridge. I keep this hole-through-hole machine in mint condition and it won me couple of competitions so far, so this is why I would like to „keep it alive“.. Even though it is the „Iron Curtain Era“ gun, it is still used by many Slovaks for competitions with great success despite the fact there is no cheap source of the original Rusian ammo anymore. Unfortunatelly, due to the uniqueness of the case and the problems associated with reloading equipment, I do not know anybody in Slovakia reloading this ammo even though Slovak shooters reload a lot.



So, some time ago I slugged the bore, then I measured the slug and my digital calipper showed .311 in grooves (.299 in lands). I intend this boolit for reloading: Lee TL 314-90 SWC. These 90 grains SWC boollits are .314. Regarding the diameter of my bore, I guess, the best will be to size them .312. Unfortunately, LEE does not offer any sizer like that. The closest one is .311, which I actually have at home, so I modified it. I chucked the die in lathe, runned about 1500 rpm. Then wrapped some 220-240 grit emery around a dowel, polished the inner space to within about .0002", then polished lightly with 400 grit. I am going to use mixture of wheel weights and shooting range lead for casting bullets. The ballistic performance of this cartridge is moderate (up to 1100 ft/s, 250 ft.lbf, 11,000 PSI).

BTW, I bought CH4D dies for 7,62x38 Nagant Revolver recently (exceptionally well made), still waiting for the Lee TL 314-90 SWC moulds to come. Does anybody have some experience with reloading using these boolits? Since there is no good source of brass, I started to convert my once fired Russian berdan brass to boxer. Now I am looking for brass from Prvi Partizan production, and possibly Fiocchi, too.

[floyd]

Here is the photo of the original Russian cartridge and a few of the empty shells I converted from Berdan to Boxer "Religion". The original berdan primer was deprimmed by a hydraulic press, then put back upside down. Before it had been fixed by melted tin in the primer pocket, then widened using 4,3 mm drill bit and finished with a primer pocket forming tool.

[texassako]

I also load for this round for something other than the usual Nagant revolver. A little snub nose pocket revolver actually. I like your TOZ. I use Privi brass and a Lee ranchdog designed .32 acp tumble lube mold I already have sized .313 with a Lee push through die. I don't need the gas seal in this revolver, but do need full length brass since the case is the cylinder throat. I use Lee .32 acp dies, neck size only with the full length .32 die, and turned down a bolt to go in the seater die to seat the bullet inside the case.

[floyd]

Thanks mate. As I said, I love my TOZ, too. I only had to replace the original ugly Russian "ergonomic" grips with my homemade grips I made out of walnut root. The original ones were uncomfortable and too small for my hand. Now the ergonomy fits like dummy. I am looking forward to the LEE moulds, but so far I have no idea about the OAL, which powder and how much to put under the boolit. Since the reloading data is virtually nonexistent, I will have to borrow my friend´s Chrony to solve this out. Unfortunately here in Slovakia we do not use most of the powders you guys from the USA do. Of course, sometimes there are some Accurate, Vihtavuori, Vectan etc. powders in shops, but, because of availability and price, too, we mostly use good Czech made Explosia (Lovex) powders, which are usually used by Sellier & Bellot ammunition company. However, I have some Acc. No.2, No.9, 1680, Vectan Ba10 and Vihtavuori N340 at home, so I hope somebody will help me here at least with safe starting loads and OALs.

[9.3X62AL]

Floyd--

I greatly admire your TOZ revolver.

Accurate No. 2 can be made to work in 7.62 x 38R, much like Alliant Bullseye or Winchester 231 can be. I would start very conservatively--2.0 grains--and work up S-L-O-W-L-Y from that point. Having the chronograph to assist you will pay benefits in safety and consistency.

What I have done in seating RN bullets is to seat them with the tip-end "even" with the case mouth end. To crimp, I take the decapping assembly out of a 32 S&W Long die and run the finished cartridge about 1/10" (2.5mm) into the die--giving what I call a "contour crimp" or slight diameter reduction that nests into the Nagant system forcing cone and does not split upon firing. Accuracy has been surprisingly good from my 1916-issue Tula M-1895. Bullets do not shift under recoil influence, either.

[floyd]

9,3x62AL,

I greatly admire your "signature". I know at least one more state where your pertinent status works perfectly (even though we have Bratislava´s Castle instead of White House). I hope I was not too politically incorrect...

BTW, thank you for your advice, I assumed something similar (some load comparable to 7,65 Browning or .32 S&W Long). I am not sure now about the OAL, but I guess I will have to try it couple of times to get the perfect result. After seating the boolit, my 4th die closes the case over the boolit into conical shape. The result is the cartridge, which looks like the original Russian sporting ammo. I do not want to finish up with with bullet diameter less than .312, so I am a little bit afraid of boolit being tapered by this step.The original Russian sporting cartridges have their WC boolits seated 9,1 mm (.36") below the case mouth which is actually the the whole conical length. When I recovered the original boolits from the wood, I was quite surprised, how soft they were, possibly made out of pure lead... The Russians had probably good reasons for it, so I would like to try soft lead, too... As far as I know, with TOZ 36 they won some World Championships and were successfull on Olympics, as well.

[9.3X62AL]

The "book" lengths I see in the few data sources I have for the 7.62 x 38R Nagant hover about .01" either side of 1.520". My current brass is all Starline, which is out of print and has settled after 5 firing/sizing sequences into 1.455" lengths. I have yet to split a case mouth using the regimen I described above. I don't think the short cases fully seal the system against leakage, but the little roller gives surprising accuracy in view of its coarse single-action trigger stroke. Its double-action stroke is IMPOSSIBLE. I have chronographed a few loads from the contraption......3.0 grains of WW-231 gives about 800 FPS to the Lee 100 grain RN. The tapered cases at those pressures dislodge easily, sometimes falling free of their own weight when the ejector system is deployed.