Wfn, wln, lfn?

[subsonic]

I'm ordering a mould from LBT for my 5.5" Bisley .45 colt.

I am ordering a 340gr plain base. I want this mould for hunting, so I want a decent meplat, with accuracy to 150yds being my #1 requirement.

I am hung trying to decide on nose shape and nose length. Veral's suggestion for my goals is a .450" nose LFN.

Anybody agree or disagree and have a good argument as to why?

If you have pictures of a WLN from one of Veral's moulds, please post it. I am curious about what kin of front driving band they have outside the case. My storebought Cast Performance WLNs are .449" immediately in front of the crimp groove, and get smaller from there. I would assume this is so they will chamber in guns with undersized throats and that his moulds will yeild a full diameter driving band for alignment.

[Lloyd Smale]

stick with an lfn. Its a good killer and probably the easiest design to work with.

[Whitworth]

Can't go wrong with the LFN. Give it a try.

[subsonic]

What do y'all think about nose length? I'm conflicted here as well.

The best chunk of lead this gun has ever flung was the CP 335gr WLNGC with .400" nose.

These would land in a circle less than 3.5" on a good day from the bench @50yds. I'd really like to get groups like that @100yds from this gun.
My 300gr WFNGCs from an LBT mould were close, but not quite as accurate as thos CP boolits..

Any theories on how much lead should be in the case vs outside?

It seems like I have always had better accuracy with a little shorter nose for whatever reason.

[freedom475]

+1 LFN....DON"T buy the WFN if you plan to shoot it very far, They will not shoot! John Linebaugh proved that to me when he saw that I had a bunch of them loaded...He walked over to me and said "Those wont fly"; "prove me wrong" ... He was SO right.

[subsonic]

Is 150yds "very far"?

I won't shoot them past that, and likely will never shoot them at game past 50yds. I only chose 150 to make sure they are plenty stable out to 100 and cover my butt if I made a slight range estimation error.

Interested to see what 'ol Jim haS to say, as he has shot his own breed of WFNs way out yonder with groups that are borderline questionable for a precision bolt gun.

[subsonic]

+1 LFN....DON"T buy the WFN if you plan to shoot it very far, They will not shoot! John Linebaugh proved that to me when he saw that I had a bunch of them loaded...He walked over to me and said "Those wont fly"; "prove me wrong" ... He was SO right.

What gun and load were you shooting when they didn't fly? I think the slower twist in some guns might be a contributing factor in this.

[freedom475]

Jim is the only guy I have known that has gotten them to shoot....I would NOT buy the wfn ever again...and the idea that they kill game better is probly a dream that is just not true...is "Deader" really a word??..

[subsonic]

Roun' herr we sez mo dedder!

I think faster kill might be the right wording.

If we coul find some of those deer compsed of wet newsprint or gellatin, we could prove it.
But you'd need to shake a lot of spices on those buggers!

[freedom475]

It was a Freedom Arms...but John said that they wouldn't fly in anything he had tested... He said he saw a video that someone had sent him and you could actually see the boolits start buffeting and then slice way off to the side.

The theory is that they are not destableizing due to a too slow twist...But rather, they are catching too much wind accros there nose and being forced to buffet and tumble or slice.

When I say these won't fly, I am not talking about groups opening up a little. At 100 yards+ they would flat change direction and coarse...we are talking about misssing by 30 yards or more from shot to shot, this is huge...and then one will go exactly to the top of the front sight...lol.

It was a total joke to watch them land somewhere that your gun wasn't even pointed... Completey unpredictable.,

[subsonic]

Wow. Interesting.

I wonder if boolit length affects it?

I don't know if you saw my thread on my deer from this year, but what you describe is what happened INSIDE my deer. A broadside shot at less than 20yds into the ribs and liver and 2 boolits exited the hams. A 3rd shot to the neck exited a front elbow. Strange stuff. This was with the 400gr Lee WFN copy from my .475 BFR at about 1300fps.

[white eagle]

Tom from Accurate Molds has a whole slew of
45 cal molds
some specifically designed for the colt
I have used a bunch
great quality molds and craftsmanship
check him out

[Lefty SRH]

Tom from Accurate Molds has a whole slew of
45 cal molds
some specifically designed for the colt
I have used a bunch
great quality molds and craftsmanship
check him out

I'll second this!

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=7

[subsonic]

Another note to add.

I have fired those 300gr WFN mentioned above as well as my 359-160 WFNs from my 686 at 100yds. Both made round holes and grouped roughly 2x what they did at 50yds. So I can say that I have not seen what you describe at 100yds. But I can't say that it never happens either.

[44man]

I have a few left, WLNGC but they are loaded. They are 335 gr.
I have had several 1" groups with them at 75 yards and killed deer just over 100.
They have a .370 meplat and right above the crimp they are .449.
The LFN has a little larger meplat but still has a long nose. It should also work fine.
The 335 is the very best at 1160 fps and the Lyman 452651 that is supposed to weigh 320 gr or so comes out 347 gr for me. I use the same load and it does 1167 fps.
A 340 should work fine.
The thing with the Ruger .45 is the 1 in 16" twist so if you push to real high velocity trying to stretch range, it will be spun too fast. It is just as bad if you load it down.
Yes I shoot a lot of WFN boolits and shoot them far, out to 400 yards.
The boolit I hit 1" targets at 100 with is a WFN or close at 76%, with my 45-70.
Loading to stability is what works.

[subsonic]

It was a Freedom Arms...but John said that they wouldn't fly in anything he had tested... He said he saw a video that someone had sent him and you could actually see the boolits start buffeting and then slice way off to the side.

The theory is that they are not destableizing due to a too slow twist...But rather, they are catching too much wind accros there nose and being forced to buffet and tumble or slice.

When I say these won't fly, I am not talking about groups opening up a little. At 100 yards+ they would flat change direction and coarse...we are talking about misssing by 30 yards or more from shot to shot, this is huge...and then one will go exactly to the top of the front sight...lol.

It was a total joke to watch them land somewhere that your gun wasn't even pointed... Completey unpredictable.,

I would like to hear more about the circumstances when this happened.
What velocity, gun, range, boolit? What was the temperature?

I wonder what the heck caused it? That is so weird.

I want to be clear that I'm not doubting this, I just would like to figure it out so I can be sure to avoid it.

[subsonic]

I have a few left, WLNGC but they are loaded. They are 335 gr.
I have had several 1" groups with them at 75 yards and killed deer just over 100.
They have a .370 meplat and right above the crimp they are .449.
The LFN has a little larger meplat but still has a long nose. It should also work fine.
The 335 is the very best at 1160 fps and the Lyman 452651 that is supposed to weigh 320 gr or so comes out 347 gr for me. I use the same load and it does 1167 fps.
A 340 should work fine.
The thing with the Ruger .45 is the 1 in 16" twist so if you push to real high velocity trying to stretch range, it will be spun too fast. It is just as bad if you load it down.
Yes I shoot a lot of WFN boolits and shoot them far, out to 400 yards.
The boolit I hit 1" targets at 100 with is a WFN or close at 76%, with my 45-70.
Loading to stability is what works.

I have fired all but 2 of my CP 335gr WLN boolits. They ALWAYS outshot the 300gr WFNs in this gun. So that's where I'm headed. I refuse to buy more of those at the outrageous prices they are charging now, and think that a no-compromises boolit will outshoot them if I keep my QC in check on my casting. I doubt I can make them worse than CP did... some were missing lube half way around and others had wrinkles. I shot them and they were not what I would call obvious flyers.

My goal is about the velocity you're talking about, but from my 5.5". I was able to get there with the .4" nosed CP's, so I am sure I can get there with a .45" nose 340

[subsonic]

Anybody else say wiff-en, will-en, and elf-en to themselves when they talk about these?

The elf-en must be best as they are made by elves, which are magic, right?

Nabisco must not be pleased with those dang Keebler cookie cooks slacking off designing boolits.

[subsonic]

I have a few left, WLNGC but they are loaded. They are 335 gr.
I have had several 1" groups with them at 75 yards and killed deer just over 100.
They have a .370 meplat and right above the crimp they are .449.
The LFN has a little larger meplat but still has a long nose. It should also work fine.

Did you mean smaller meplat?

[freedom475]

I was shooting at the John Linebaugh seminar in Cody WY when this happened. The first thing that happened to me was when I sat down at the range and John walked over and asked what I was shooting? Then he said "Those won't shoot, prove me wrong".

I hoped he was wrong, and I started shooting....he was right and his "blanket statement" must mean that this is something pretty common knowledge for him to say that before I even fired my first shot....Lucky for me he took pitty on me and gave me some of his personal ammo (LFN's) to shoot so that I could enjoy the games with everyone else.

The gun was a 6" FA83 475L
The boolit was a 420WFN GC, Lyman#2 alloy, HT to 22BHN, LBT Blue lube.
The load (i don't remember exactly) but it was enough A4100 (Enforcer) to get me somewhere around 1100 or 1250fps? (I chronoed the load to find the best ES) The load seemd to shoot good enough when I paper plated it over the hood at 25 and 50 yards, so I loaded every brass I had with this load and headed to the seminar.

Weather..it was cold, rainy and windy...probly around 40-50 degrees.

Maybe this load was still hitting well at 100yards, But we didn't go to the seminar to shoot close range. But the load went real bad when it went bad and I don't think it was much past 100yards.
The distance we were shooting was Far... we were shooting metal targest from 200yd Chicken, then the 300 pig, 400 turkey and the 500 ram, various tagets at 6,7,800 and then the buffalo was at a 1000.