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Thread: 9mm & .41 Action Express

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    9mm & .41 Action Express

    123456
    Last edited by bowfin; 11-12-2012 at 04:35 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


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    As you noted, the .40 S&W came out after the .41 AE did, and copied the ballistics. In fact, most loading manuals list the same data for both calibers, using the same weight bullets. I was at the SHOT Show in Las Vegas in 1991 when Winchester and S&W both announced the caliber and handguns together. It was the talk of the show at the time.

    I have a large supply of factory .41 AE ammunition from the last run IMI made. I also have a good supply of virgin .41 AE primed brass from that run. I've sold some of it for ungodly amounts of money, but that was what the buyers offered, so it must have been worth it to them. I'll probably end up selling off the rest of it, since I very seldom shoot my two .41 AE handguns anymore.

    Conversion kits were offered by Tanfoglio and Browning, as well as the Jericho. My pistols are Tanfoglio in that caliber. Combination pistols were offered by FIE, which were Tanfoglio made.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    ReloaderFred, what models are your .41 AEs?

    CDNN has EAA conversion kits for the Tanfoglio pistols and their clones for $49.99.

    However, the kicker is the brass and ammunition. I have a good supply of both put away, but I am always looking for more. My last purchase was some factory ammunition at $8.00 a box. .41 Action Express ammunition is either feast or famine!

    When I become independently wealthy, I am going to track down a pristine Jericho 941 conversion package that came with the gun and both 9mm and .41 Action Express barrels...

    ...that will probably be sometime after paying off the $1100 repair bill I just was hit with for the wife's van...

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold
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    I am sitting on 20boxes of 200gr samco 41action express and no barrel to fire it in

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    matsu,

    Most reloading die sets say .41 mag/.41 AE, so you can either buy a conversion kit for a 9mm Tanfoglio, or sell the ammunition to someone or auction it off.

    You can also keep an eye on Gunbroker for a .41 AE. A nice one went a few weeks ago for $231.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    Bowfin,

    I have an FIE Combo gun, and a conversion for one of my Witnesses, both of which are Tanfoglio produced handguns.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    9mm Action Express?

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Gunslinger1911's Avatar
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    Sweet, I haven't see comment on 41 AE in years !!
    When it came out I bought a barrel and 3 mags for my P35, took a little tweaking to get every thing running smoothly. It likes 210 SWC's from my 41 mag.

    Fun to see the reactions when a HP smacks steel plates that hard !

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    9mm Action Express?
    Here's some more information on this one:

    http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w9mmae.html

    The only person I have known to actually have a pistol chambered for this cartridge is Springfield on this forum.

    I can't say for sure, but this cartridge would have seen its real potential if and when it ever came out in the Uzi submachine gun.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    My understanding was the .41 AE was developed as an economical way for the Israelis to upgrade their UZIs to a harder hitting cartridge. It only needed barrel and magazine swap to do that. The civilian marketing followed.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


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    The Uzi did come in .41 AE. A friend had one, but sold it when ammunition became hard to find.

    The 9mm AE is similar in performance to the 9x25 Dillon round, which is the 10mm necked down to 9mm. I have a 9x25 pistol on a Witness platform.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred

  12. #12
    Boolit Mold
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    Has anyone tried fire forming any of the longer 9mm brass cases like the 9mm Largo to make 41 AE compatible brass?

    In "The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversion", Donnelly suggests soldering a ring of thin walled 13/32 inch brass tubing near the webbing (above the extraction groove) to act as a spacer.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


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    Expanding a case from 9mm to approximately 10.1mm is asking too much of the brass. It would rupture, I'm sure, having seen 9x19 cases that were fired in .40 S&W chambers, which are 10mm in diameter. They usually either split, or are stretched to the point of nearly rupturing.

    Solding tubing over a case might work for one or two rounds, but the labor involved in making more than a couple would make it a rather dubious venture.

    New, virgin brass is available from Quality Cartridge, but it's almost $1.00 per round. http://www.qual-cart.com/ In fact, they have one box of .41 AE ammunition in their closeouts sale right now for $69.97, regularly $82.97: http://www.qual-cart.com/sale.htm

    Hope this helps.

    Fred

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
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    Looks like Buffalo Arms also sells 41 AE brass.

    I'd love to see in increase in supply so we could get the price of 41 AE brass back down to a more affordable level, but I suspect this window of opportunity has already passed

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Gunslinger1911's Avatar
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    I bought 500 from Starline back in the day,
    They carry some pretty esoteric stuff - I'm suprised they don't at least list 41AE as "to be made when enough orders"

    Hmmmmm, Wonder what their minimum order is ?

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    When I talked to Quality Cartridge at the SHOT Show last year about making the .41 AE brass, the guy who actually makes it said it really pained him to take $6.24 a pound brass and turn it into $2.25 a pound scrap (those were the prices at the time). The amount of scrap from turning down the rim amounts to a lot of money, which is why they charge so much for it.

    Even at those prices, it's still cheaper than buying brass for my .45-120 Sharps.........

    I talked to Starline about making it a couple of years ago and they expressed no interest at all. I asked them if that was their final answer, and the reply was an emphatic, "YES".

    Hope this helps.

    Fred

  17. #17
    Boolit Mold
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    Hi Fred,
    Very interested in purchasing some of your .41AE factory ammo, I PM'd you. Let me know

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by matsu View Post
    I am sitting on 20boxes of 200gr samco 41action express and no barrel to fire it in
    I will be happy to purchase those 20 boxes from you, I PM'd you to discuss details.
    Thanks in advance

  19. #19
    Interesting stuff, but I'm curious about somrthing here. The mention and link to the 9AE makes me wonder and curious. According to Cartridges Of The World. the 41AE, Evan Whildin made the original 41AE brass by turning down and trimming 41 Magnum brass, to fit the boltface and work in a gun designed for the 9mm.

    I have a TZ75 series 88 combo gun that came with both barrels and spring sets, 9 and 41AE. They both take the same boltface and action, just different barrels and springs. So the statement in the link about the 9AE "The advantage of this in the 9mm AE is that the cartridge offers a larger case that can be used in firearms originally designed for the 9mm Luger without the necessity of changing the bolt or breech face. This will allow a number of 41 AE semi auto pistols and carbines to be changed to the 9mm version by the installation of kits made available for specific weapons." confuses me because there was no necessity to change the bolt face to begin with since the 41AE and the 9mm Lugar took the same bolt face, as apparently did the 9AE. All that was ever required to change any of the 41AE pistols to a 9mm version was to change the barrel. You would have to change the barrel to one made for your round no matter what you shot, so why not just leave it at the 41AE and 9mm Luger, why even introduce a cross between them into the mix?

    Anyway, I have no 41AE brass or ammo, so really have no use for my TZ75 as I have other 9mm also. And my hands are just a little short for it to fit me comfortably. So if anyone has an interest in aquiring a very nice TZ75 combo, in both calibers, let me know. Has 2 17 round 9mm mags and 1 11 round 41AE mag.

  20. #20
    Boolit Mold
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    How much are you asking for some of that ammo?
    Do you happen to have any reloading dies for the .41AE?
    Thanks.

    Art

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check