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Thread: Faster Buckshot loads!

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    I use to believe that. I shot my first 2 bucks with standard 9 pellet loads and imp cyl choke, I was 19 then. If I knew then what I know now, I would have at least been using a modified choke. I prefer modified and full now for buck shot unless a particular load or the application tells me otherwise.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H.L. Mencken

    The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.― H.L. Mencken

  2. #42
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    cylinder bore patterns best

  3. #43
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    RMc cryptic as usual. You know way more about all this.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmortimer View Post
    RMc cryptic as usual. You know way more about all this.
    Cryptic? Agh! You have seen right through me!

    I posted a link to Handloading Shotshells for Turkeys by the same author as Handloading Big to see if anyone would notice the difference in the approach by the same writer to these different but similar loads.

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    It dawned on me, many months ago, during an extended discussion of the definition of "Buck Shot" or some such, over at the Beartooth forum. BTW, I believe my definition, was as good as it gets. One of my proudest moments, and then you kept prodding when I thought we had arrived. I then realized I was "Grasshopper." My PM over there went unanswered, is James Gates O.K.? Big fan of all that Dixie Slugs/Mr. Gates has done and you are one who would know. If you can't get into it, I understand. I know you are man man of few words, except when it comes to large spheres of lead alloy.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    I must have been very "cryptic" as I don't believe anyone has ever referred to me as a "man of few words." I suspect my prodding in that thread was a reflection of my years of teaching.

    Regarding James Gates, he is facing some health issues and I would encourage all so inclined to include him in your prayers.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master

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    All my shotguns must be oddballs. Full chokes = more buckshot on target in every gun I own. Easy enough to count. Did today in fact with 3 different loads. First time using Bpi nickel plated 00 and so far at least I can't say they're worth the difference in price but still working on that.

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    Here are some links that come to different conclusions

    http://www.shootingillustrated.com/i...ckshot-basics/

    Here is thread from Dixie forum with posts from the inimitable RMc

    http://www.dixieslugs.com/forum1/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8

  9. #49
    Boolit Master

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    The "gold standard" for me is a 00 buckshot load patterned @ 50 yds in a 12" circle - a stretch to be sure. I have not found a factory load that will put a single pellet in the circle consistently out of cylinder bore in my 870 or A-5. Infact even full choke is only marginally better @ 50 yds. These are all 2 3/4 in hulls. I have developed reloads with 12 00 pellets that consistently put 3 - 4 pellets on target @ 50 yds out of full choke. The best I can do with a 2 ball (.570) load out of same is one ball on target an one flyer. More open chokes do work best on those loads. With full bore slugs it doesn't seem to matter. My testing is done with scoped guns off a rest. I am envious of the tri-ball loads but don't shoot 3" guns. Just a hobby and I have been much inspired by contributors on this site. For the record my best result has been 8 - 00 pellets out of multimetal wad over 19 Grn CLAYS, a "light" load relative to the boomers with HS -6 and Longshot. Thanks to all here who are serious about results and share their knowledge.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master OnHoPr's Avatar
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    Could someone elaborate on buckshot speed and size for the purpose of killing deer. A little story, back a long time ago I knew a 14 year old that sat on his heels in a winter wheat field watching a pine plantation about 75 yards away and he shot a doe running into the pines at about 75 yards to his right. He was using a 24" sxs 12 ga. The gun was basically used for grouse, rabbits, and in heavy brush for deer but you know hunters new or old, they got ideas and strategies. He was using a 2 3/4" magnum 12 pellet count of 00. One pellet hit the deer about 4 or 5 inches back from the V. The deer did a little gate twitch as he said. A group of us went to track the deer and there was no blood but the classic debris kicked up in front of the tracks. We tracked it about 250 yards when it came out of the pines and crossed a road and was found dead at a fence just past the ditch on the other side of the road. A couple of the veteran hunters said that if it didn't hit the fence it could have gone a ways further. The single 00 had a complete pass through and being of that load it was only doing about 1100 fps of so. I have read where unless the buckshot actually hits the spinal column or head that it is the instantaneous multiple hits that create shock so to speak since there really isn't any real type of energy per se in the individual pellet. The individual pellet only creates a narrow (pellet size) wound. So wouldn't a multiple number of wound channels be better. I always pattern my buckshot loads and sometimes I have used a big oak for my target holding. I have never seen a buckshot penetrate more than about 3/4" with either #4, 3, 1, 0, or 00 buckshot. All of these buckshot will penetrate at 40 yards or so through the hair and green ribs of a deer into the lungs, liver, and heart and if through the lungs pass out the other side. So to elaborate the question if 00 or 000 is pushed at the 1500 to 1600 fps will it still penetrate through the hard boned heavy muscled front shoulder and into the boiler room at least to the other side from say a frontal quartering shot? I know really none of it will pass through a juniper bunch if they are the 3/4 to 1 1/2 inch size.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master

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    I am primarily a traditional bowhunter and have killed maybe 200 in 40 yrs, about half with recurve bow @55 lb shooting arrows that weigh about 550 grns. There is not a deer in this country that will hold the arrow shot through both lungs, maybe hitting one rib. My arrows blaze along at about 175 fps out of the bow. The point is that deer are thin skinned animals and it just doesn't take much to get through them. Misplaced shots are an altogether a different story. One pellet will easily kill the biggest deer if well placed by luck or design. The wound through the lungs, liver or into the heart may be small but definitely lethal. Buckshot is not going to create shock like a high speed rifle. Often a fatally wounded deer will run a few seconds, stop and lay down and die right there if undisturbed. 8 or 10 seconds at deer speed can be a long way though. Hunting you want to minimize that and get as many pellets in the vitals as possible. There won't be any blood unless you get a complete pass through if the wound is high lung. It will all be internal. Of course a pellet in the heart is lethal quickly, but it's better protected behind the thickest part of leg bone. Measure the biggest deer from the skin behind "elbow" to center of heart and it's no more than 6". A OO buck at moderate speed will easily do that at a surprising distance; of course it's more luck than skill past moderate distance. That's my novel and I'm taking a nap now!

  12. #52
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    Let me tell you about the first time I went deer hunting. I grew up hunting nothing larger than geese, Dad still doesn't own a centerfire rifle and never had desire to hunt any thing he couldn't carry out. Fast forward to college and my coon hunting buddy says lets go hunt deer on my Granddads place.
    I had a shotgun so went and picked up a couple boxes of 00. Patterned them through my imp. cyl choke and went hunting.
    Climbed in to the fork of a tree opening morning and waited till a little 2x3 east Texas buck wondered by about 35 yds away. I thought, "I've got this".
    I hit him with 2 pellets, 1 front shoulder, 1 hind quarter. He toppled over without taking another step. He wasn't dead, just laying there, I had to go finish him off. A while later another came by and took all 9 pellets at 15 feet. He didn't require a second shot.
    I don't know what I hit on that first one but it worked. That kill was luck right there.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H.L. Mencken

    The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.― H.L. Mencken

  13. #53
    Boolit Master

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    The deer was spine shot by one of the pellets. Paralyzed by a severed spinal cord.

  14. #54
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    Good find
    -Rob-

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    Unlike most of the people offering information they got from reading, I have hunted with buckshot for years. In some locations, it is the only option. My experience, 000 buck is superior to 00. I loaded some hot loads a few years ago that performed most impressively. I only had 2 3/4 inch hulls, AA probably. I used a cup wad, no sleeve or buffer. Load was 8 or 9, 00. I didn't chronograph the load but it was noticeably faster than a standard load. I dropped deer at ranges well beyond what the books say are the limit, consistently. In contrast, I shot a running deer several times with the 3 1/2 inch, 18 pellet load, in a reasonable range, and the deer didn't go down. You need a gun with a reasonable pattern consistency and you can only tell that by testing the load and the gun, but one 00 or 000, driven fast is worth a handful of slow ones. 8 000, driven by a maximum powder charge will put meat in the freezer. I haven't experimented with using the steel shot wads, but they could be an idea. They could raise pressures. My best performing hunting handloads, as I remember, were with just a plastic over powder wad and probably herco powder, 32 grains, or more, and 8 or 9, 00.

  16. #56
    Boolit Master

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    Fllounder, you have read Robert Ruark's "The Old Man and the Boy" haven't you it's in your wheelhouse and a great piece of literature.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master OnHoPr's Avatar
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    Well I guess I'll stick to more pellets hitting the lungs and neck than a single 00 buck hitting where ever at 1600 fps.

  18. #58
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    LOAD# BKL121026-4294
    HULL: FIOCCHI 12ga 2.75”
    PRIMER: FIO616
    PROPELLANT: Alliant RED DOT 28.0 Grains
    WAD: PT1251 (12ga) 1/8FW20 in wad base.
    SHOT: NPOO buckshot (308 gr.) 6 pellets (2x3=6) two by two.
    FOLD CRIMP: 6-point, OS12 under the crimp
    Result: PSI 9800 FPS 1700
    I have BPI's Buckshot Loading III manual.

    This load I can not find in it.

    They must take the good loads out of it.

    Questions:

    #1 - if 6 pellets are moving faster at 1700 fps, that should equal or exceed the pellet energy ft lbs of 9 pellets moving slower at 1300 fps??????


    #2 - are the faster loads able to keep their pattern together????

    No use having a fast load if the pattern will not hold together.

  19. #59
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair View Post
    I have BPI's Buckshot Loading III manual.

    This load I can not find in it.

    They must take the good loads out of it.

    Questions:

    #1 - if 6 pellets are moving faster at 1700 fps, that should equal or exceed the pellet energy ft lbs of 9 pellets moving slower at 1300 fps??????


    #2 - are the faster loads able to keep their pattern together????

    No use having a fast load if the pattern will not hold together.
    The nickel plated buckshot is probably key, as is the felt wad; both should help reduce pellet deformation, and keep the pattern. I'm a big fan of light, fast buckshot loads for tactical/home defense use, but this is precisely because faster pellets lose their energy more quickly (aerodynamic resistance is proportional to the cube of velocity, so pellets going twice as fast lose energy 8 times as fast.) So, lighter and faster loads are devastating up close, but not so great for longer range, and the greater acceleration during firing causes greater pellet deformation and wider patterns, all other factors being equal.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmortimer View Post
    Here are some links that come to different conclusions

    http://www.shootingillustrated.com/i...ckshot-basics/

    Here is thread from Dixie forum with posts from the inimitable RMc

    http://www.dixieslugs.com/forum1/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8
    Buckshot patterns and home defense:

    At "hallway distances" none of the pattern enhancement developments in buckshot ammunition, at least since the introduction of the pin-fire breech loader of the mid-19th century, make any meaningful difference.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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GC Gas Check