StainLess Steel MediaMidSouth Shooters SupplyGraf & SonsRotoMetals2
Titan ReloadingBallisti-CastInline FabricationLee Precision
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Hardening a frizzen

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    15,573

    Hardening a frizzen

    I have to do something I never had to do. My friend brought over one of those cheap Spanish flinter pistols he picked up from an estate sale. It will not spark because the frizzen is too soft and I am sure it is made from tool steel and not hardened properly.
    I usually replace parts and locks but this gun is not worth spending $2 on. So my dilemma is what temperature do I temper at after hardening to get the best spark.
    I plan on heating it cherry red and dumping it in water but it will be too hard and brittle.
    It's funny that after over 50 years of building and repairing muzzle loaders, this is the first time I am faced with this.

  2. #2
    44MAN; I do not remember the correct temp, (crs) I do remember that when I "halfsoled" frizzens with a piece of saw blade I tinned it with soft solder, then hardened it. When the solder joint between the two parts melted it drew the temper to the correct point (heat from the back side). Maybe that will give you a temp to work with, sorry I do not remember the draw color.
    Nick

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    RayinNH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    2,329
    44man, you'd be safer to quench in oil than water. Both quench mediums will give the same outside hardness but the inside of the oil quenched won't be quite as brittle. After hardening polish the face of the frizzen. You want to heat to about 300-325. This will give you a light yellow color on the face. You can to do this in a toaster oven. When you reach the desired color just requench in the oil. If this doesn't work the steel is probably of a lesser quality than anticipated, and you may need to use something like "Casenit"...Ray
    I've got the itch, but don't got the scratch.

    Democrats, uninsuring the insured.



  4. #4
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Bloomfield, Nebraska
    Posts
    5,440
    A lot of the spanish frizzens won't harden worth a s^%t. I use Doc Carlsons hardening compound which I find is much better than Kasenite. I also quench in salt water bath as I find that works best. Back to the spanish frizzens most will surface harden abnd wear through is short order. I think the steel is alloyed with swiss cheese. I prefer to get a frizzen tht is close from TOTW and fit it to the lock if I have to. If the lock is the Maslin style consider replacing the whole lock as the rest of the spanish locks are no better than the frizzens and a cheap lock in a flinter is a sure ticket to either flinches or disgust.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    15,573
    I fixed it, IT SPARKS!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

    RayinNH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    2,329
    44man, did you reharden or reface the frizzen...Ray
    I've got the itch, but don't got the scratch.

    Democrats, uninsuring the insured.



  7. #7
    Boolit Master gregg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    sd
    Posts
    356
    Quote Originally Posted by ARKANSAS PACKRAT View Post
    44MAN; I do not remember the correct temp, (crs) I do remember that when I "halfsoled" frizzens with a piece of saw blade I tinned it with soft solder, then hardened it. When the solder joint between the two parts melted it drew the temper to the correct point (heat from the back side). Maybe that will give you a temp to work with, sorry I do not remember the draw color.
    Nick
    Done this myself.
    Heat in lead pot and cool slow. Soft and time to work it into shape.
    Cut and bend so to say.
    Heat to cherry red and pop it into water. Hard as glass and will break
    just as easy if you try to bend or shape.
    The act of soldering the sole onto the frizzen will make the sole just the
    right hardness.
    This is how I have soled a Frizzzen and might be better ways . But its a start.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master





    Old Ironsights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wherever they hire Philosophers & Misanthropes...
    Posts
    7,794
    Quote Originally Posted by KCSO View Post
    A lot of the spanish frizzens won't harden worth a s^%t. I use Doc Carlsons hardening compound which I find is much better than Kasenite. I also quench in salt water bath as I find that works best. Back to the spanish frizzens most will surface harden abnd wear through is short order. I think the steel is alloyed with swiss cheese. I prefer to get a frizzen tht is close from TOTW and fit it to the lock if I have to. If the lock is the Maslin style consider replacing the whole lock as the rest of the spanish locks are no better than the frizzens and a cheap lock in a flinter is a sure ticket to either flinches or disgust.
    What do you think of TC frizzens. I think I may have already worn one out after onlya few hundred shots.
    Compromise = Only getting beaten "half as much"... In "Law" it's called a "Plea Bargain".
    TEA: Black, Green, Red or White, Sweet, Bitter or Iced, it has to come to a boil first - & we're almost boiling...
    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for independence." C.A. Beard (1874-1948)
    מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין - Daniel 5:25-28


  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    SEUS
    Posts
    156
    What I've done is used Kasenit.....heated to proper temperature (cherry-red in dark room, magnet will not stick), plunged into Kasenit, heated back to cherry-red, quenched in quart of oil (water can cause stress cracks), cleaned up, redo entire process, clean-up again, and then draw temper by heating to light straw color/oil quench in well-lit room, taking care to not go to brown or blue, as by then it's gotten too soft again......

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Bloomfield, Nebraska
    Posts
    5,440
    T/C will re harden well for you. MTN gave the right instructions for kasenit, I prefer a little different technique and I use Doc's compound. I have hardened these by wrapping in leather and sealing it in a tin can and then quenching the whole works when it is red hot, but that takes a real eye for the heat. A good harden job on a T/C frizzen should give you 500 plus shots as high as 1000.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    SEUS
    Posts
    156
    KCSO, what do you use for heat?.....I'm limited to a couple of propane torches (one won't put out enough heat even for Kasenit)......your method is as good, and probably better, but lack of good heat source means Kasenit for this boy......

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    15,573
    I got it red hot and put in Kasenite, then kept heating it and melted the Kasenite on the surface. When red hot again I dropped it in salt water. I drew the temper at 350 degrees in the oven for an hour and just let it cool down.
    Once the proper temper is reached you don't have to quench. Just let the metal cool slowly.
    I make springs by hardening and then tempering in 600 degree lead for an hour. I fish out the spring and set it on the top of the pot and unplug it. Never had one break yet.
    I am spoiled from buying good locks that never need any work. A good frizzen will last forever, unlike the old ones and some of the cheap junk.

  13. #13
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    I drew the temper at 350 degrees in the oven for an hour and just let it cool down.
    Farenheit or Celsius degrees ?

    You may find useful the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKKhIOx707M

    Best regards.


    http://www.aetasrationis.com

  14. #14
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


    waksupi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Somers, Montana, a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem.
    Posts
    19,120
    You might want to check the barrel on that pistol before giving it back. Years ago, Bob Olsen sent in pictures to the Buckskin Report, of a barrel he had sawn in half, that belonged to one of his deputies. It was from one of the cheap Spanish pistols. He had originally took it to Bob with the same problem as you are dealing with, a soft frizzen. Bob, being rather strong minded, cut the barrel with out asking first, just so it could never be fired. His deputy was a bit put out at first when Bob told him what he had done, but got a better attitude after seeing what the inside looked like.
    It showed that the barrel had been drilled from both ends, with the drilling just in the same basic neighborhood where they met in the middle. Rifling was done with the same method. Needless to say, not accurate at all, and most likely unsafe to shoot at all.
    Bob kept the barrel in his gun shop for years, since it was a good example of a cheap firearm, and what to expect from one. I'll bet his son Lance still has that barrel.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check