Lead vs FMJ... Reloads vs Store ammo for fighting?

[35remington]

Andy, just giving you a "heads up" that the issue of handloads is debated here with great vigor. In other words, we're not sure it's all that cut and dried.

Karen, any further comments? What material is the frame of the pistol made of? Steel or aluminum?

[Karen]

3 inch barrel, aluminum or titanium frame
Kimber Ultra Carry II. I love it. But I dont like the sights. Just black metal

[35remington]

If I recall correctly, Ultra Carry II's have aluminum frames.

Aluminum, as you know, is soft. "Polishing" an aluminum frame ramp removes the hard anodizing on the frame, leaving a very soft aluminum under the hard coat. This soft aluminum under the anodizing is a very poor surface for the bullet to glance off of. It would deteriorate to the point of destruction in a short period of time after being "polished."

If you had polished this, even with sandpaper, the consequences could be disastrous.

Leave the feed ramp alone.....period. Never, ever modify a gun simply on someone's say so. Here you were being advised to modify a pistol when the posters never bothered to even find out what model of 1911 you had. I think I've made my point.

Short 1911's have reliability issues related to a great many things, most of which involves reduced slide travel. Now that we've made clear that polishing the ramp is disastrous, and is not an option unless you want to ruin your 1911, we are properly, and thankfully, resolved to look elsewhere.

I know I'm being demanding, but next time, pay attention to exactly how the pistol jams. Is the breechface hitting the feeding round in the extractor groove rather than the rim? How far is the nose of the bullet in the chamber?

Whose "lead bullet ammo" are you using, exactly? Is it a brand name or some shade tree reloading by someone you know?

Could you please post a picture of the exact ammo you are using, and take a picture of the position of the cartridge in the pistol when it jams?

In this case, a picture is worth more than 100,000 words. It will show us, more specifically, the exact problem. "Lead bullet ammo" is often loaded incorrectly, and a short 1911 demands everything be nearly perfect or issues arise. How hot is this lead bullet ammo loaded?

[btroj]

Must be a full moon. Two threads in one weekend with the "no reloads for defense ammo" thing.

When will that just go away.

Karen, listen to what 35 Rem has to say, he knows what he speaks of.

[Karen]

One box was orange with "police ammo" written on it. Another was maybe "Western"? These looked old, but were factory made.
FMJ I have tried - Remington, Winchester, "F&B"?. Even old military stuff works fine.

I don't mind paying a good gunsmith to fix the ramp. But I do mind having to wait months to get it back. Then I have to carry my .38

Hmm. I will call Kimber this week and sent it back to them to fix. I don't want to mess up the aluminum ramp.

Thanks for all the help gentlemen. I learn so much from this site. I have done many searches here, I just normally don't talk.

Happy New Year everyone. Peace & love.

[35remington]

I'm trying to recall, and failing to recollect, any recent big name factory ammo in 45 ACP that had lead bullets, rather than jacketed bullets, in it.

There's remanufactured, like Black Hills, but that's quality stuff. Here I'm thinking you have reloads, and there's no guarantee that the person reloading them knew what he was doing.

Do you have any remaining that you could show us a picture of?

How do you know that they were factory made? The very fact that they are lead roundnose ammo suggests that they were not.

Drop the idea of modifying the ramp for now. It's likely that is not the problem, and few gunsmiths are capable of re anodizing a frame ramp after it's been modified. That's a factory issue, and we do not yet know that you have an issue caused by the pistol. It very well could be the ammo.

A picture of the ammo, even the fired ammo, headstamps, and box, would be helpful.

[Karen]

sorry, no boxes left of lead ammo.

ok, one last thing, I am fine using home made cartridges for self defence right? No legal issues? I have 38 ammo that was made for me by my Dad.

Sending 1911 to Kimber tomorrow.

[35remington]

I don't yet think sending the pistol to Kimber is advisable, especially given you were likely using handloads that may have been poorly produced.

You're likely going to confuse them.

Is it possible you could try ammo from a better source, or a better handloader, before sending it off? You likely could be returning a pistol that has no issues to the factory.

[35remington]

If you planned on using home made ammo from this same source, it could very well be the worst choice you ever made.

The first and most important characteristic ammo of any type must have is to go "bang" every time, and given the information you've provided I'm not convinced you have a source available to you that is capable of producing ammo that works reliably.

Stick to real factory. Not lead bullet "factory loads" like you've found, until you do some serious reevaluation of where you're getting your ammo. Handloading ammo that might be used for self defense is not for amateurs or the ill informed.

[Karen]

Are you saying that no company makes 45 ammo with lead bullets?

[35remington]

Pretty much, yes. Lead roundnose bullets with no jacket are unknown from the big name manufacturers. I can't think of any.

Small handloading firms do that are "local." But not the big names in 45 ACP. Unless I miss my guess, you're shooting handloaded ammo.

And probably not handloaded very well. I cannot yet see blaming Kimber for that.

[Doble Troble]

Those little 1911s are right at the bleeding edge of reliable design. Browning didn't design the Officer Model.

If you've found that cast bullets aren't reliable, but jacketed are - you are ahead of the game as there are plenty of those guns that won't shoot a magazine of anything.

If you're carrying it for defense, load it with what ever has never shown a feeding problem.

If you're shooting it at the range, shoot it with whatever you want, as long as it will be reliable with what you really carry when you're done, and if shooting it with lead fouls it to the point of unreliability, MAKE SURE you clean it before carrying it again.

And shooting it A LOT is always helpful for reliability - you learn what it shoots reliably.

You've got a gun that most people don't shoot very much, and this is a problem. Any gun you're going to carry should be shot regularly and to the point of absolute confidence.

[runfiverun]

the orange is hmc as i recall [has a picture [outline in black] of a cop or soldier on the box] and is reloaded ammo just with a name brand on it.
i'd bet they [the boolits] are/were just too soft.
ultramax and others reload and resell also in factory like packaging.
if you are looking to cast your own the mold weight is just approximate. a 225 gr mold is more likely to weigh 232 grs as anything specific.
if you are buying to reload i'd bet that most commercial cast are harder than what you were getting and would work much better right off.
you can also change the seating depth so they will work for your situation.
you have gotten some good solid information from the others already.
the only other thing i would add is to try some plated if you are uncomfortable with the lead or re-working the gun.

[Karen]

Pretty much, yes. Lead roundnose bullets with no jacket are unknown from the big name manufacturers. I can't think of any.

Small handloading firms do that are "local." But not the big names in 45 ACP. Unless I miss my guess, you're shooting handloaded ammo.

And probably not handloaded very well. I cannot yet see blaming Kimber for that.

Interesting. I found a box, made by HSM Missoula, MT.
So this box is from a person making ammo at his home and not an actual factory? You are right, looking at the cases, they are mixed. Win, FC, WCC.

[KYCaster]

Lots of people with good intentions giving you conflicting advice. How do you know who to believe?

I'd say listen to 35Remington, he knows what he's talking about.

Did you buy the gun new or used? Is it possible that a previous owner worked on it?

If the gun is unaltered then Kimber will most likely tell you it's within specs and not to use reloads or lead bullets...right back where you started.

If you're not happy with the sights, why not send it to Kimber to have hi-viz sights installed and ask them to check the feeding problem while they have it?

I'll also suggest that you find a club in your area that shoots USPSA or IDPA competition. Go to a couple of their matches and you'll find people there with lots of experience reloading and diagnosing feeding problems.

Good luck
Jerry

[35remington]

Bingo.

Reloads. Just what I thought.

Still want to send it in to Kimber tomorrow?

What Doble said is truthful, as unkind as it may seem. The shorter the 1911, the greater the tendency to malfunction. But right now we can't definitely say it's the gun rather than the handloads.

When I see that someone's shooting handloads, and they claim they don't work, the first thing to suspect is the handloads. They can be made extremely well or very poorly. And with Mr. Murphy in the mix, somebody's incompetence in handloading is the way to bet.

[Karen]

I love my little 45, I bought her new. I waited a year before deciding what 45 to get. I didn't want a foreign made pistol, so no Springfield. I actually wanted a Colt. But I decided on the kimber. I have not changed a thing on her. I am a member of a range, so I shoot her once a week.

So I think FMJ only for defense. They always work. And I shoot them every week. I was hoping to same money on ammo. Oh well. I never imagined the Aluminum frame would be a problem. I love how light it is, but steel would have been better.

[AndyC]

I have to completely agree that if it's an aluminum frame, definitely don't try and polish it - 35remington is spot-on with regards to the danger of going through the anodizing to the soft metal below.

That said, the bottom line thus far is that that particular cartridge / lead bullet combination - for whatever reason - doesn't feed in your pistol. I wouldn't send it back to Kimber yet - try some other loads/bullets and see if you can find one that it does like, because I doubt that Kimber is going to want to modify the pistol specificially for handloaded ammo; most manufacturers advise against handloads as a means of CYA.

[35remington]

There's no blame associated with anything yet. Not for certain. This hasn't impugned the reliability of lead bullet ammo one iota, as I bet we can line up five hundred guys here who regularly shoot lead bullets through their 1911's with no issues whatsoever.

What should be learned from this is not all handloaded ammo is good, just as not all handloaded ammo is bad.

And next time, if it happens again, take a picture of the event and post it here. We will do our best to help.

Final hints:

Absolutely, positively NO shok-buffs in shortened 1911 pistols.
For frequent practice, roundnose ammo is kinder to frame ramps of the aluminum kind than hollowpoints with aggressive, sharp jacket edges.
Weak magazine springs are the number one cause of malfunctions in short 1911's, as it is common for the slide to outrun the magazine, producing a bolt over base failure to feed that looks very much like a "frame ramp" jam.

Frequent spring changes are necessary on short 1911's as they function on the razor's edge of reliability. To discover why, observe how far the breechface goes past the magazine well when it is drawn fully to the rear. Now you know why shortie 1911's must have strong magazine springs. If you have "extra capacity" flush fit seven round magazines, you may well be better advised to switch to six shot variants with a stronger spring if bolt over base misfeeding starts to occur.

You want to stack the odds in your favor that your pistol will function correctly. These things will help it do so.

FWIW, an all lead, roundnosed or SWC bullet will be the kindest of all to your aluminum frame ramp, even if hard anodized, and will be reliable if they are handloaded correctly. This is a point in favor of frequent practice with handloads using lead bullets.

But again, only if they're handloaded correctly!

[waksupi]

Interesting. I found a box, made by HSM Missoula, MT.
So this box is from a person making ammo at his home and not an actual factory? You are right, looking at the cases, there are mixed. Win, FC, FC.

If you have Hunters Shack ammo from Missoula, I think they burned down around 20-25 years ago. I don't now if they ever re-opened or not. They had a commercial type loading machine set up in the back of the shop, and reloaded for the MPD.