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Thread: All the Complaining That Goes On About Lee Precision

  1. #441
    Boolit Master 44magLeo's Avatar
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    On the APP it's not a cure for anything. It does some things faster than other methods. The case and bullet feeder is what speeds up the processes.
    Many powder coat boolits, this sizes then faster than others by using the feeder.
    The case feeder speeds up both decapping and pocket swaging.
    It can also do anything any single stage press can do.
    A very innovative press.
    Onto other things about Lee.
    When I first started loading I bought a set of Redding steel dies for 44 S/Mag A friend had a press and showed me how to load. Once I moved out of the barracks I bought an RCBS Rock Chucker Press.
    THe R/C is a fine press but has some things I didn't like. The primers didn't all land in the catcher. A lot went on the floor.
    The priming happened at the middle of the ram stroke which is not the best place for seating primers. The effort to seat was so much you have a hard time feeling when the primers hit bottom.
    I never felt comfortable using primer feed tubes. Perhaps the tubes I had were an issue. When pushing the tube down on the primer they often fell back out. I looked around for a better priming system and found the Lee Hand Prime Tool. It was much better than on the R/C.
    When operating the press I didn't like the mushy feel as the press cammed over. It didn't feel very precise. It took a bit of fiddling when setting dies. You couldn't just raise the ram and thread a die to touch the shell holder. If you did you might not be able to lower the ram. You had to back the die out till you could. It work as is but never felt right.
    In a move I lost my loading equipment. When I got settled I bought a Lee Loader press an 44 S/Mag die set to get started again. I liked the little press but I felt I needed an O frame press. I bought the Lee Challenger and started to use it I liked the way the ram came to a stop at the top of the stroke. This has a solid precise feel to it. This made setting dies quicker and easier. .
    To prime on the press I tried it by hand feeding primers in the arm. This was not bad. The priming happens at the bottom of the stroke. This gives better feel of when the primer bottoms in the pocket. I prime off the press so never bought a primer feed for the Challenger.
    With the way primers fall after they get punched out of the case isn't perfect but very few primers don't go down the chute into the tube. Much cleaner than the R/C or any other press I had used up to that time.
    My Challenger uses the breech lock bushings. I just leave one in the press and thread dies in/out. The time it takes is not that much.
    I think if I had an R/C on the bench next to the Challenger I wouldn't use the R/C.
    Other press I have used are an od CH C press, Lyman Tru Line JR, RCBS R/C, The Lee Loader and the Lee Challenger.
    Not as many as some others have but I feel this gives a good idea of how other brand handle these tasks I've talked about.
    Some don't think the alloy frames Lee uses are strong enough. For most things most loaders do with a press Alloy is just fine. It may not be as massive or heavy a press but moist don't need that.
    The alloy frame doesn't flex as much as cast. How this affects most loaders is questionable .
    There are other design features Lee uses that make their press unique. The adjustable length handle. When not needing it's full power you can shorten it so you have less arm movement.
    Being able to swap the handle from right to left is good also.
    Some of these features are now being incorporated into other brands of press. The same thing applies to other products Lee make.
    I guess I've rambled on long enough for now.
    Leo

  2. #442
    Boolit Master omgb's Avatar
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    For pistol shooters this is likely a time saver. I can't see where it feeds rifle bullets and I can't see where much time would be saved if any, reloading long gun ammo. That being said, it looks pretty good for guys who powder coat pistol bullets or shoot Glocks. I'm not knocking it, not in the least. Nor am I critical of Lee products in general. I own a lot of them. I just don't see the need for this guy on my bench. I felt the same way about that new-fangled RCBS press. It works and some guys may prefer it, but I don't need it.
    R J Talley
    Teacher/James Madison Fellow

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by omgb View Post
    For pistol shooters this is likely a time saver. I can't see where it feeds rifle bullets and I can't see where much time would be saved if any, reloading long gun ammo. That being said, it looks pretty good for guys who powder coat pistol bullets or shoot Glocks. I'm not knocking it, not in the least. Nor am I critical of Lee products in general. I own a lot of them. I just don't see the need for this guy on my bench. I felt the same way about that new-fangled RCBS press. It works and some guys may prefer it, but I don't need it.
    Couldn't agree with you more not every one would benefit from it. I usually shoot 100 rounds of pistol twice a week yesterday was 50 , 45 auto and 50 , 44 special . I like to decap before cleaning cases so with the app it took a total of 5 minutes to de-cap those 100 cases and dump them in the appropriate coffee can that when full will go in the case tumbler . We all have a system that works for what and how we load.
    Most of us do this for entertainment and to save money shooting , do it the way you like and enjoy the process.

  4. #444
    Boolit Master GWS's Avatar
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    I understand both of your point of views. I think the APP is one of the most versatile time savers to reloaders period. I like to reload okay, but I'm not a fan for long sessions or using up my time multiple nights per week.....so any way to speed up the process interests me....especially the slow bottle necks....like case prep.....yet I also love bling.

    I don't cast or even load lead (yet), but I do load a lot of LC brass in both rifle calibers......and I do load a lot of commercial .45acp and .40s&w. brass....and I use a wet tumbler to make my eyes happy. So what can the APP do for me? I actually do have the new-fangled RCBS presses...both the Summit and the newest progressive to go along with my pro 2000 and my RockChucker and I even like them. But the APP will replace the Summit....and why's it better/faster? That's easy....the case feeder.

    Yesterday I swaged 1000 rounds of LC .223 using the APP, today I primed them on my RCBS APS bench primer.....at the same spot on my bench by tranferring the tool to the same Lee quick mount. I saved a lot of time.....the swager is easily 4 times faster than using a bench swager like RCBS's or Dillons. Each session was 30 minutes long.

    Before that I deprimed that brass while learning the APP, and that took the longest only because I was modding the APP to feed rifle without glitches and interruptions. Now having figured that out....depriming that count would likely take the same session time or less.

    Anyway already the press is now has a permanent place on my bench.....it saves time.

    Will I still use the Summit? Probably in conjunction with my R.C. for developing loads.....once developed, besides my tumbler, my motorized trimmer, I'd be using my APP to prep and my progressives to load....the Pro 2000 for pistol and the ProChucker 7 for rifle.
    Last edited by GWS; 04-14-2020 at 09:14 PM.

  5. #445
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    I don't shoot combat pistol leagues anymore and my high volume pistol shooting is 9mm which was until recently cheap enough to buy by the case. I also shoot a fair bit of 357 and some .44 special. For rifle I buy .223 by the case and reload for 30_30 and 308. So the cartridges I reload for are the ones I shoot cast boolits in. All this is leading up to what part of my reloading I want to automate with a progressive press.

    I'm thinking I'll get a Lee press for the rifles. Size and decap the lubed cases and also bell them for the cast boolits. Then I'll wash off the lube and dry the cases and hand prime them. Then I'll run them through the press to charge them with powder and seat and crimp the boolits. So I can take what was four manual operations on the Rock Chucker and turn it into two on the progressive. And I guess I could try and make the Lee priming system work but the Rcbs hand primer is fast and reliable and I can do it in the living room.

    The pistol calibers I think I will do with a Dillon Square Deal. I had two coffee cans full of spent primers from .45 acp when I quit combat shooting all done on a square deal. Broke a few shell plate center bolts and the cast frame once. I will get the Lee press first and if I can make the primer feed work reliably I may just use that for my pistols before plunking down the big money for the Dillon.

    The Rock Chucker will be used to size LC brass and primer pocket swaging.

  6. #446
    Boolit Master
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    I don't think there is a primer feed for the app it would not be fast tool for priming .
    The one I saw on the Lee web-sight mounts on top of the press to be fed 1 primer at a time.

  7. #447
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    Ooops
    Last edited by onelight; 04-14-2020 at 11:55 PM.

  8. #448
    Boolit Man
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    I always looked down on Lee products. Recently I got a M1A SOCOM and needed a set of dies. I shopped around all the manufacturers, looking for features vs price, and dang if the Lee Pacesetter come out on top. I've loaded around a 100 rounds with them so far and they've been perfect. I'll be getting more Lee dies.

  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by onelight View Post
    I don't think there is a primer feed for the app it would not be fast tool for priming .
    The one I saw on the Lee web-sight mounts on top of the press to be fed 1 primer at a time.
    Not thinking of the APP press. A Load Master or BL Pro.

  10. #450
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic_Charlie View Post
    Not thinking of the APP press. A Load Master or BL Pro.
    Sorry I misunderstood , The ABLP is what I use now and I like the priming system it's the same one as the Lee Classic Turret .
    It is not as fast as the loadmaster and has 4 stations instead of 5. I had a loadmaster for many years and I do prime on the press 90% of the time .For my use I prefer the ABLP you still get a loaded round each pull of the handle and for me much more user friendly.

  11. #451
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by onelight View Post
    Sorry I misunderstood , The ABLP is what I use now and I like the priming system it's the same one as the Lee Classic Turret .
    It is not as fast as the loadmaster and has 4 stations instead of 5. I had a loadmaster for many years and I do prime on the press 90% of the time .For my use I prefer the ABLP you still get a loaded round each pull of the handle and for me much more user friendly.
    I think the Auto Breech Lock Pro would work well for me as well.

  12. #452
    Boolit Master kmw1954's Avatar
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    ZOWIE, this is a long running topic. Been following and participating some and I honestly have to say that over these past few weeks with everyone hunkered down in their holes that this has stayed pretty civil. Seen some good venting with good reasoning to go along with the complaints.

    I have a good bit of Lee equipment and most was purchased used so I received it greatly discounted. My personal view is that I know what this stuff is before I buy it. I read the reviews, I read the forums and each one has a topic like this that either like this one runs on forever or intermittently.

    With all the talk on every gun forum there is no reason for any forum member to not know the history and reputation of Lee Precision. After all it is not hard to find it.

    For me, even while buying much of this stuff used I still cannot complain about what I bought. After-all I bought it because I either needed it or wanted it and went into the purchase with eyes open and an informed opinion and understanding of what I am buying. What I buy fits and fills my reloading needs.

    I am not going to try and convince anyone that this Lee stuff is the top of the line but I am also not going to sit here using the stuff and call it Carppy either. When I get asked about this stuff I try to give an honest unbiased opinion. Not everyone that reloads needs a Dillon 1050 or even a Dillon 650 to do what they need to do. I just started casting about 8 months ago and started with a used Lee 356-102-R1 mold that I got off of ebay for $20.00 including shipping. I learned a bunch using it and probably the biggest lesson learned was that I want to do more! I have since bought 2 more lee molds, which I then traded one for a different one and have also picked up 2 used Lyman molds. Now at this time I am also looking at getting an Accurate mold for my 45acp. Which will probably cost as much as all the others combined.

    I just believe it's not my place to make judgments of others because of the tools they choose to use. Whether they be top-o-the-line or fifty year old out of production classics. Just the same as I don't care if all you ever use is a single stage press or a hammer and pliers as long as you and what you are making is safe. I also don't care if you; reload your brass right off the ground or run it through 6 different cleaners. Prime on the press or off the press. Seat and crimp in one die or two. Or only shoot Plated, Jacketed or cast bullets in every gun you own. It's really none of my business how anyone else does it and if you don't like the way I do it, Well Sorry it's what I do and I'm comfortable doing it.

    All I can add is that I am enjoying what I am doing, how I am doing it and what I am doing it with and that is all that really matters!

  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic_Charlie View Post
    I think the Auto Breech Lock Pro would work well for me as well.
    I bought an Auto Breech Lock Pro for 9mm. I liked it so much that I bought a second one that Lee had upgraded to the Pro 4000 kit.

    I am slowly transitioning my high volume rounds to these presses. So far that is 223, 9mm, 45 Auto and 357 mag.

    My rifles rounds I load a much smaller amount so they will stay on my Lee Classic Turret and Lee Classic Cast single stage.


    Steve in N CA

  14. #454
    Boolit Master kmw1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sghart3578 View Post
    I bought an Auto Breech Lock Pro for 9mm. I liked it so much that I bought a second one that Lee had upgraded to the Pro 4000 kit.
    I have and use a Lee 3 hole turret, Lee Pro1000 and a Lee ABLP Pro4000. In my opinion the new ABLP Pro4000 is a nice hybrid of the Auto advance turret press and the Pro1000 progressive press. I believe this press will find a nice niche in the reloading community just as the Classic Turret press has. I don't think it is as fast as the Pro1000 because of the Safety Prime but is much more forgiving to most users than the Pro1000.

    My thoughts on the Pro4000. First off I wish they would have kept the all metal shell plate carrier of the Pro1000, kept the case feeder with the Z bar and kept the turret heads as the turret press has instead of the bushings. Lastly I wish they would have given an option for the auto priming as on the Pro1000 instead of the Safety prime.

    I do really like the improvement in the spent primer handling and that they rotated the whole press counterclockwise. As it is now I mount my 3 hole turret and Pro1000 rotated about 20*. The roller handle is nice but it needs to be redesigned so that when handle is at the top it is bent back more because when at the bottom of the stroke I have to really stretch because I load seated because of my P.A.D. in both legs. I have a hard time standing at the press for extended periods.

  15. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmw1954 View Post
    I have and use a Lee 3 hole turret, Lee Pro1000 and a Lee ABLP Pro4000. In my opinion the new ABLP Pro4000 is a nice hybrid of the Auto advance turret press and the Pro1000 progressive press. I believe this press will find a nice niche in the reloading community just as the Classic Turret press has. I don't think it is as fast as the Pro1000 because of the Safety Prime but is much more forgiving to most users than the Pro1000.

    My thoughts on the Pro4000. First off I wish they would have kept the all metal shell plate carrier of the Pro1000, kept the case feeder with the Z bar and kept the turret heads as the turret press has instead of the bushings. Lastly I wish they would have given an option for the auto priming as on the Pro1000 instead of the Safety prime.

    I do really like the improvement in the spent primer handling and that they rotated the whole press counterclockwise. As it is now I mount my 3 hole turret and Pro1000 rotated about 20*. The roller handle is nice but it needs to be redesigned so that when handle is at the top it is bent back more because when at the bottom of the stroke I have to really stretch because I load seated because of my P.A.D. in both legs. I have a hard time standing at the press for extended periods.

    I can't disagree with any of your observations. I was hesitant at first because I like the interchangeable turret heads on my Classic Turret.

    But I invested in three sets of the new style breech lock locking bushings (the Pro4000 came with a set already along with 223 dies). The new style lock rings hold their adjustment very, very well and make changing calibers a snap. Of course you still have to change the shell plate but the whole caliber change is a 2 minute job.


    Steve in N CA

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check