All the Complaining That Goes On About Lee Precision

[John Boy]

Many of are in agreement - Lee Precision with John Lee at the steering wheel has put many products in the hands of reloaders - that work and for prices that are reasonable. Some say cheap.

I'm a BPCR shooter of many calibers. I was surprised that no one mentioned the Lee Perfect Powder Measure that I use for all my BPCR reloads. Twenty four buck for a powder measure that drops consistent accurate charges. Here's a test I did comparing the Lee to some of the best measures ...
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7037

[Dannix]

and a few years later I figured a better way to do the same thing and didn't bother anybody with the new idea.

Curisoity is about to put me into the morgue. Could you "bother" us here? Are your "disc checks" like Wilk gas checks?


I'm using a Lee classic cast as my one and only metallic reloader. Got other red items on the bench, but they are MEC. Got a Dillon 650 on the to-buy list, but its lower on the list compared to the MEC gear and Star sizer that was on the list. (shrug).

[gandydancer]

I buy what works best for me. and I use lee for just about all my reloading. some items are not well made so I stay away from them. my press is a redding T7 and a RCBS ammo master & I have used a lee press for years. I have a dillon 550 with a lot of extras I have not used in 15 years just rusting away in the celler. no longer shoot in 45 matchs don't need it I like to take my time reloading and just about all my dies are LEE some custom made by lee.and some molds. and their hand primer is the best. GD

[Bullet Caster]

I also use Lee exclusively unless I can find a deal on something else. My press is a Lee Breech Lock press as are all my dies are Lees too except for my 30-06 dies and they are RCBS thanks to a member here. All my moulds are Lees as well as all my case prep tools, i.e., shell holders, case length guides, cutter and chamfer tools. If it were not for Lee, I wouldn't be able to reload or cast anything. Nothing wrong with Lee in my book. BC

[Recluse]

I remember asking a deer I shot and killed a few years back if he was bothered by the fact that the shot that did him in was constructed using primarily Lee equipment.

He never did answer me.

[timbuck]

If Lee makes what I need, I buy it.
I wish they made the 325WSM.
I have the Lee Classic Turret Press. Only problem I had was with the auto index.
Once I figured out what I was doing wrong (short stroking), it runs great.
It does what I need.

[Bwana]

Curisoity is about to put me into the morgue. Could you "bother" us here? Are your "disc checks" like Wilk gas checks?


I'm using a Lee classic cast as my one and only metallic reloader. Got other red items on the bench, but they are MEC. Got a Dillon 650 on the to-buy list, but its lower on the list compared to the MEC gear and Star sizer that was on the list. (shrug).

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/...ad.php?t=74391
&highlight=disc+checks

They are just like PatMarlin's PB checks. I started making them about 25 years ago and fired a bunch of them on my 295 and 340 gr 44 boolits out of my two DW 44 mags. My method of production was a little slower (?) but they work great. The pics are no longer there.

[Rokkit Syinss]

Not a thing wrong with Lee as long as you know what you're getting. Good dies, OK molds, case trimmers work but they are not for high production.

[DODGEM250]

I have no problems with Lee either. Everything I own is Lee. I have no issues with my molds, beats the extra $30-$45.00 for a Lyman. Why the Lyman is so great is beyond me. I have borrowed a couple of Lyman molds, and I don't see any benefit on this end. My presses are Lee as well, no issues with them either. There's no need for debate between the two though, what it boils down to is your personal requirements, budget, and quantity needs. My reasoning is, if you shoot paper and don't hunt, buy something that will mass produce. If you hunt and shoot paper a little, buy Lee, it's more adequate.

[daboone]

The ingredients that made America strong, American made, innovation, and very competitive pricing. Lee also has the attitude that make you smile when reading his book and advertising. Kinda reminds me of Mr. Herter's wonderful catalogs.

[HeavyMetal]

Bwana has hit the nail on the head with the problem at Lee Precision.. it's management.

Most of the products Lee makes are good solid ideas others not so much.

examples are the zip Trim and the Lee Load Fast. I will admit this is a personell preference thing and Lee has the 3 jaw chuck as an option to the Zip Trim and it is one of there best ideas!

The real compliant with Lee is management or lack there of!

QC doesn't exist and they depend on there distributors to handle most of that and, I suspect, at the distributors expense. I have seen this business model in other industries!

Customer service? That can be iffy and, if you've been on site long enough, you may be aware of group buy issues when they were the only mold maker willing to cut "custom" designs.

If you called to see what took them so long to do a job they'd bump your project to the bottom of the list for having the nerve to question them about it!

Several GB's had to be re cut, one in particular about 3 times before they got it right!

This is one of the reasons we now have makers like Mihec doing GB's for the site and providing better service to boot!

Some will say we get what we pay for and in all case's this is true!

However when I submit the asking price for any product without haggling or whineing I feel it shoud be delivered in a reasonable time frame with reasonable quality!

If the manufacturer is loosing money on the deal he needs to say so and adjust pricing.

If the manufacturer is havng labor problems or training issues he needs to say so, and this is important, he still needs to stand behind his product line and services!

So has there been some a little "bashing" of Lee here? Absolutely!

By listening to your customers issues, and I will admit some are BS, one improves ones products if he cares to listen!

Case in point: Lee Precision is a paying advertiser on this site, see top of any page, and, the rumor has it, they visit the site regularly.

Yet I have never seen a post by anyone claiming to be a company rep ( please point me if I have missed such a post) defending the position or asking for examples of customer service or QC "mistakes".

I have not seen a post asking about the GB's that have gone elsewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong but I have not 'seen" a mold GB go to Lee in a long time.

You'd think in tough times losing any business would run up a red flag and at least generate an appeal to try them again.

So far as I know no such post has been made, must be nice to be able to throw customers away!

In conclusion let me say I still buy Lee stuff and I suggest Lee stuff to people starting out or needing some special gadget they didn't know exists.

But I always add the proviso that customer support is iffy at best!

[geargnasher]

"You'd think in tough times losing any business would run up a red flag and at least generate an appeal to try them again."

Lee isn't experiencing "tough times" at all right now. They had to build and tool an entirely new facility to even begin to keep up with the demand for their products in the last three years. I think their current problems are related to growing pains, and the production and facility level is exceeding the effectiveness of the original company's business model. They are at the point now where ISO compliance and hiring outside production management consultants would do them a lot of good, but to do that they'd have to revamp the entire concept of how this once small familiy business was run, and no doubt add significant cost to the end products. I also don't think they have any interest in getting involved with internet forum discussions about the merits of their products. That can and does get ugly fast. Remember that Lyman used to be a site sponsor? Remember how THAT worked out?

Gear

[Thecyberguy]

I have had a few minor issues with a few Lee things. A couple due to my own ignorance. I have had nothing but good service and in each case was treated well and fairly.

"Correct me if I'm wrong but I have not 'seen" a mold GB go to Lee in a long time."
I have seen a few folks try to start a group buy and were stormed with so much "bashing" it was just left to die. Nothing wrong with stating that you had a bad experience, but some folks seem to go way beyond that. Too bad.

I even started a thread here asking if in fact Lee group buys were dead here and had many responses that pretty much said yes. Like I said Too bad.

That being said ...watch the ones that come after me for saying such a thing!!!!!

[Mossy Nugget]

I was off and loading with the lee anniversary kit right away as everything needed but dies and case length gauge comes with it. I load about 150 rounds a week. Likewise the loadall for shotshells provides 100 shells for Sunday clays. The chamfer tool won't do outsides of short cases, the scale is difficult but useable. Today I load 4 calibers, and the lee classic turret press would be ideal for that. I would recommend the challenger kit for beginners today as I prefer the feel of the hand primer. If my modest needs wear out my lee equipment, then I might concede to those who spent much more. I chose to buy more powder, primers, and lead instead. Haven't been sorry so far.

[fortrenokid]

I , too, have a "chamberpot full" of Lee Products, particularly moulds and die sets. All of 'em work great and so, so much more inexpensive than most competitors. And I reload cartridges from 25-20 WCF to 577 Snider.

I have had GREAT customer service from them.

A while back a decapping pin on a 45LC die broke. I thot nothing about it ... the set had loaded 10's of thousands of 45LC's over 15 or 20 years. I wrote and told 'em the warranty had long since expired and asked the cost for a replacement. Told 'em at the same time I needed a shellholder for 45 Auto Rim and asked the cost for it. Faster than you can say "Holy S@#T" I had a replacement die with decapping rod AND a 45AR shellholder and NO CHARGE. Not a penny! Nada!

Then, in early December a 30-06 case got stuck in the full-length resizing die (yes, I'd polished the case and sprayed it with Hornady One Shot). Sent the die w/stuck case and asked their assistance in getting it out, my efforts having failed. In a few days, and this was during the Christmas rush, I had a brand-new 30-06 full-length resizing die AND a free tube of Lee case lube and, you guessed it, NO CHARGE.

Lee is tops in my book and I plan to keep using 'em for as long as I draw breath.

[HeavyMetal]

the fact that thecyberguy started a thread concerning GB's through lee, and the negative response he got, shows the point I made in my previous post: the manufacturer has to care about his customer or his business goes 'elsewhere"!

Many got tired of the response from Lee when inqiry's about paid for GB's were rebuffed.

Guys like Mihec stepped up saw a market niche to be filled and did so with product that can only be described as excellent and in reasonable time frames as well.

Now I have several GB molds made by Lee and all are excellent, I was lucky not to have been involved with the first ill fated h&G 68 copy lee made for the site.

I also realize they are growing as a company but, and this is a big but, smart management does not allow company growth run away like a wild horse! Anybody here remember New York Seltzer???

A prime example of corperate mismangement! I did business with New York Seltzer during the time they were in busness and, as the company grew, stupid moves went from plain stupid to "magnum" stupid!

One of my guys was literally trapped under thier scrubber by a TIGER left to wander the facility!

A California thing to be sure but still why spend money buying a TIGER when you need to hire people to help run your business?

I've said it before and I will repeat it now I do not mind paying for tools! Lee has a number of almost idispensible items that I have on my loading bench.

The product, for the most part, is excellent but pictures and stories of new product being "jacked" when it comes out of the box is unforgiveable in the amounts we seen come out of Lee's inventory judging by the posts seen on this site alone!

If a mold design was suggested as a BG, and it was one I wanted, I would have no qalms about making a purchase "provided" reasonable delivery time and QC could be "garronted" by the manufacturer!

Mihec is, as far as I know, a one man band with a single CNC machine and he manages very resonable pricing and delivery times.

Is it an unreasonable request to ask why can"t Lee do the same?

[fj3fury]

I only bash stuff that I have had problems with. With that said I'll list those..

Lyman .223 two die set that stuck more casings than i care to count back in the early 1990's.

Lyman .270 die set, expander cracked.

Lee .329" mold. The sprue cutter was warped and I replaced it with one from a Lee mold I seldom use.

Lee wadcutter mold for the 38/357. The bottom of the mold was out of square and finished with what I surmised with an angle grinder. I fixed it by cleaning it up with my mini mill and a face mill cutter.

Lee single cavity 150 grain fn for 30 cal mold, somewhat older one. I scrapped it after after it flew out of the handle, when I was hitting to release the bullet, and landed in the quench bucket. The mold was smoked thoroughly to release the bullets.

Lee 6 cavity 230 grain tc mold, cam lever to open the sprue cutter on the first casting session. I repaired with a cut down piece of tool steel.


I mentioned Lyman twice. So while most of my turkeys were Lee, I didn't pull any punches. I will say that I like Lee die sets a lot, especially the collet dies.I have for the most part gave up on their molds.

[DCM]

I am very "high maintainence" when it come to loading equipment, I have some expensive high end tools and presses. That said I also have a stack of Lee boxes next to the other red, orange yellow,green blue and the other green boxes. I also have 7 of Lee perfect powder measures!
I am very fussy about what I use for certain things but I usually find the Lee products to be of high quality and great value.

[mold maker]

It isn't the brand that does the work. It's just a tool.
Thank God for LEE.
We'd all be paying extreme prices for ammo, if it weren't for Lee keeping the reloading/casting prices down for all of us.
If ya only see red when ya think about LEE, then by all means buy the rest, but remember who kept them all affordable.

[405]

Well, cheap is always attractive but sometimes at a price.

I too have a mixture of brands. I have a few Lee molds that I consider as spares. Generally, they are kinda junky. Of the 10 or so Lee molds I have, I only use (1) as my primary mold for a particular use. The Lyman, Ideal, T/C, RCBS and Mountain Molds I have are plain and simple superior to the Lee.

While the internal specs on Lee dies seem to be pretty close to correct some of their design features would leave a neanderthal scratching his head. Aluminum locking rings with rubber O rings that lock nothing???? Die stems that have internal O rings that lock nothing???? Decapping/neck button stems with friction collets that don't lock???? Hand priming tools of plastic and chrome plated pot metal????, etc.

But, some of Lee stuff is really good. I like their large mold handles. I like their rifle (not pistol) factory crimp die for certain things. I like their old, original hammer driven reloading system.... it can produce extremely precise ammo. I like their neck collet sizing die.... very concentric neck to body specs for precise ammo. I like their cast bullet sizing push thru die.... very precise bullet sizing with near zero runout... and they can easily be honed out for custom sizing. I like their case trimming system... it is precise and can be easily changed for custom lengths and uses but ughh it is tedious.

I guess if there weren't some real stinkers in their product line and the QC wasn't iffy, there wouldn't be many complaints and this thread wouldn't have legs.