zinc/aluminum bullets

[Thompsoncustom]

well played around with the little zinc I had left in the pot last night, now I'm thinking there is no problem then you add lead all by itselfs as when I added pure lead it seemed to melt right into the mix no problems but then I tried to add some WW lead and it did the oatmeal thing the zinc does when it's in lead but the flux seems to remove it I'm guessing it only leaves the zinc but I don't know. I emailed allient powder to see if they had an data for me so I'll just have to wait for them to get back. Also the bullets came in same as the lead around .358 if only they cast to .356

[bigjason6]

How do you suppose the zinc would work for buckshot?

[leadman]

Zinc would work for buckshot but you would want to ensure all of the pellets were in the fingers of the wads to protect the barrel. The range might be pretty short also.

My friend is a Civil War reenactor and his group melts old carburators and such for cannon balls. They are about 4" across IIRC.

There is an article in an older Shooter's Bible or other book about shooting zinc in big bore rifles. The author said to pick a mold that cast to bore size as zinc is hard to size. Also no lube is needed on the bullets. Veral Smith was also mentioned in the article as he supplied the molds and helped some in other ways.

When I run out of lead I may pursue this. For now I will just stock-pile the zinc.

[Thompsoncustom]

what do you think about shooting these bullets unsized? possible problems?

[SHOOTER IN EXILE]

I've never tried casting zinc, so you now have more experience at it than I do! Something tells me, though, to be careful how hot I get an aluminum mold.

That little trick about using a hand torch to reheat the spue to get it off, I have to wonder about that, too. That's a lot of heat to be shoving into an aluminum mold.

Give some thought to finding a small ladle to cast with. Me thinks that might be a bit easier than casting straight from the pot.

I'd also like to suggest you strike the sprue cutter with a hardwood stick like a hammer handle or something of that nature. Of course, if you ARE using the handle of the hammer, you're in good shape. Smackin' the sprue cutter with the hammer HEAD is gonna' ruin the cutter in short order.

I don't think you NEED to water drop zinc boolits, but I can't see it hurtin' anything. They're gonna' be pretty hard water or air cooled.

As for that white film developing in the mold, I can't speak to that. No clue what that is. Do be very careful messin' around with acid.

Keep us posted on your progress and results. I feel sure a lot of people are watching this thread.

For years I have used a camping stove to melt my bullets. On one side of the the fire I put a steel plate under the mold to keep it from warping on the other side over the direct fire I put the melting cast iron pot. never had a problem. some molds are over 30 years giving me the pleasure of bullet casting.

[SHOOTER IN EXILE]

My molds are steel, don't know the effect on aluminum molds.

[Thompsoncustom]

Update:


Well got out and tested my first reloads today 10 lead bullets loaded with 4.7 gr of unique. Everything with them went fine but not really impressed with the accuracy about a 6inch spread at 45ft from a rest. Do I adjust the load to improve the accuracy?

Also Tested 3 zinc/alum rounds not for accuracy just more to see how they worked. I also loaded them with 4.7gr of unique but instead of shooting into my 1/4 steel bullet trap I shot at the side of it and recover one round here is a pic.



Held up really nice for impacting steel head-on. Started out weighting 81 grains and now weights 59.

[Thompsoncustom]

Tested a couple more today loaded at 5.5gr and 6.0gr of unique they were snapper than the 4.7 and these also put some dents in the side of my trap. I was reading reloading data somewhere that I can't find now that had 7.5 grains of unique for 88-90 grain bullets. Would this be safe to run behind a 81 grain bullet. Could I go higher because it's lighter?

[oneokie]

Tested a couple more today loaded at 5.5gr and 6.0gr of unique they were snapper than the 4.7 and these also put some dents in the side of my trap. I was reading reloading data somewhere that I can't find now that had 7.5 grains of unique for 88-90 grain bullets. Would this be safe to run behind a 81 grain bullet. Could I go higher because it's lighter?

You need to get a good load manual to use as a guide for reloading, not data you find on the internet.

[Whiterabbit]

Hi Thomson,

I have some questions for you.

Do you have a chronometer? Do you shoot this exact bullet in lead? Do you have a load using this lead bullet that groups well?

What I am very much interested in is the SPEED you shoot your cast lead bullet variant, compared to the SPEED you shoot the zinc variant.

In other words, what I want to know, is if you have two identical cartridges, same bullet cast from the same mold, same primer, same powder, same reloading process, same EVERYTHING but one bullet is lead and one is zinc, and when fired they come out of the barrel at the SAME SPEED (meaning the zinc round of course has less powder)

do they group the same?

----------------

For the engineers I can hear just straining to respond with the academic responses, I KNOW it shouldn't be the same, it shouldn't work, it's not that simple, it's comparing apples to oranges, I know!



............ But do they group the same?

[firefly1957]

Thompsoncustom use data for a bullet that has the same seating depth even though zinc is lighter by about 40% the low case volume raises pressures !!!! Data for the same bullet weight in lead/jacketed will have more case capacity then the bullet cast of zinc of the same weight.

[letsmeltlead2693]

It didn't melt in the zinc it DISSOLVED. It mixed in and alloyed with it. You made a potmetal alloy or zinc-aluminum alloy.

[odfairfaxsub]

aluminum what where did you get those at and you had to melt that at 1500 F

[letsmeltlead2693]

Zinc melts at 787F and aluminum melts at 1220F. They mix together like salt and water. For example salt and water mix even though salt melts thousands of degrees higher than water. He did not melt that at 1500F. At 1500F you can melt silver and molten silver is a glowing cherry red. At that temp zinc will boil away producing zinc fumes and smoke.

[odfairfaxsub]

oh, i was 300 too high, just wondering. he must be using propane and not a melt pot

[letsmeltlead2693]

Actually think about 900F. You are 300F too high. He probably was using propane. Zinc won't melt on a hotplate even on high heat. Need torch assistance to melt zinc.

[firefly1957]

The proper name is alloying the metals.

[Longwood]

I just don't understand.
One of the oddities of alloying is how we can lower melting temperatures.

Lead melts at aroumd 621 degrees.
Tin melts at 450 degrees.
30-70 lead tin solder, melts at 365 degrees.

Huh?

[Whiterabbit]

Hi Longwood,

It's a pretty neat concept. We operate under the assumption that everything is at equilibrium (life NEVER is at equilib, but we do what we can!) But check out the following, it's called a phase diagram



So the X-axis is the lead-tin mix. Smack in the middle is 50/50, and at the sides are pure tin and pure lead. Most notable is the minimum temperature for a full melt, and the alloy that is required to reach that. We call that the "eutectic" alloy, or the eutectic temperature (you-tech-tick).

In this case, what we care most about is the line of full melt temp, but even the other phase changes can be of interest. For example, if we held the melt between the solidus line and liquidus line, we end up with a slurry. Something forum members here might call "oatmeal", depending on the alloy.

But it's nearly 100% of the case. In a binary phase diagram, there is a eutectic (even if it is .004%!) alloy where the melt temp is lower than a pure material of either chemical.

[Whiterabbit]

This one is probably the most famous of all phase diagrams, iron and carbon. Shows Steel, Iron, and Cast Iron of multiple types. And covers everything from basic rail steel to high end knife steel to pots and pans, and everything in between.