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Thread: How to make a mold for a breneke slug?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    How to make a mold for a breneke slug?

    I have a slug an the picture and I`m searching for a homemade mold
    I can`t buy a mold because where I am don`t find to buy some thing
    If I oiled the bullet and add gypsum , next step will be to make a replica from a heat resistance material and cast aluminum over this I obtain a mould
    Is that a good choice to make a mold or can be make more easy?
    I will be glad if you help me with some advice about making a mold starting from a bullet
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fotografie0011_1.jpg   Fotografie0012_1.jpg  

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Research the postings on this site by "Y-Man". He has some good information on what you need. I believe he has cast a slug in a socket. Very interesting way of going about casting with limited product availability.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master crabo's Avatar
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    Where are you located?
    Crabo

    Do not argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold
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    I am from Romania

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

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    You can't use a conventional split mould to make Brenneke style slugs due to the ribs. Up to four ribs or hex will work but not a multi ribbed style like the Brenneke.

    As mentioned, Y-man made a hex mould from a socket and while crude, the idea has merit and hex shapes are not hard to find or work with.

    The type of mould you are talking about making sounds similar to investment casting. You could possibly use a Brenneke as a form then pour ceramic around it to make a mould but it would be fragile and difficult to remove the cast slug. I guess you could make a ceramic copy of a Brenneke to use as a male plug then cast aluminum or brass around it to make a one piece mould. I think that would be difficult and not likely very accurate and again difficult to remove the slug from the mould.

    I make push out moulds and have made slotted inserts to produce Brenneke style slugs. The moulds look more like swaging dies and are one piece body with ejector pin. They are fairly easy to make though the ribs are not necessary for cylinder bore use. The ribs are there to allow collapse through a choke and possibly reduce bore friction.

    So far I have had little success using screw on wads like Brenneke. Even using jigs for drilling and alignment for wad attachment, I cannot get good consistent accuracy. I have had good success using hot melt glue to form attached wads and they are easier to make than screw on wad slugs. The slug has to be paper patched or sized to fit into a shotcup to keep the glue off the barrel walls though.

    The push out mould or round ball mould is fairly easy to make if you have access to a lathe and/or milling machine.

    Do you have any machine tools available?

    Longbow

  6. #6
    Boolit Mold
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    Thank you longbow for you complete and useful answer
    I have drilling machine and friends with lathe , so is not a problem tools, the problem is to design that mold
    What you write give me some ideas:
    - to make a mold from 3 pieces: one in the background of the mold with tip of the slug,a middle part with the ribs and a upper part with the inner shape and hole for pour lead alloy
    - a swagging die from a cylinder and 2 parts used to form tip with middle ribs and rear of the slug. I think that is method used by Brenneke factory, put some weight of lead alloy then press it
    - a casting aluminum mold
    It is easy to make slug without ribs but I don`t want to broken my barrel choke so I will try next week to make a mold then I will post the result

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

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    otonel:

    If you are shooting through a choke then you need a slug that will either fit through the choke or ribbed/hollow base that will collapse to suit the choke. A full bore solid slug or ball will not do!

    Have you considered round ball? Undersize round balls in shotcups or donut wads will go through the choke and still provide quite good accuracy to at least 50 yards. I can depend on 3" to 4" groups at 50 yards. Beyond 50 to 60 yards groups tend to open up. Certainly a Brenneke will give better longer range accuracy.

    Round ball moulds are not terribly hard to make if you can't buy one..

    Alternately, if you have access to a lathe a push out mould of hollow base design can be made quite easily.

    I have attached a graphic of the old Ideal cylindrical mould. I have made similar moulds for rifle and handgun boolits as well as several shotgun slugs. Shown is base pour but I have also made nose pour using a nose form so they can be hollow base. I have also made ribbed and finned slugs using the same type of mould.

    I make mine from 1 1/2" (38mm) diameter round bar so much larger that the Ideal which looks flimsy to me.

    If you are interested, send me your e-mail address then I can e-mail drawings and photos of some of my slug moulds. They might give you some ideas to work with.

    Longbow
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ideal Cylindrical Mould.pdf  

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Use RTV silicone to make a mold. It WILL take the heat of molten lead. I used to use this stuff to cast "jetheads" for Marlin and Ahi lures (which are alot larger than a 1 oz slug).

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Mhf0hhv2DKahzA
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  9. #9
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    ................No doubt the Brenneke slug is swaged, and those ribs were no doubt broached in the beginning. Nowadays you'd use EDM to form the complete cavity. I'd suspect that as large as the ejector pin could be (actually encompassing and containing the entire nose form), it should be able to eject the slug from the die without much of a problem at all.



    I swage these, and while they obviously do not have the fins, the ejector pin OD is very small in relation to the diameter, and especially their length. They eject fine. There was a gentleman who at one time made up several moulds to swage up the hexagonal boolits used in the Whitworth long range muzzle loaders. The boolits were not only hexagonal, they also carried the skew (twist) of the barrel, which was 1 turn in 20 inches. Due to this shape and the boolit's length, a 2 block system would not work as it would lock up. How the man did it was to form the cavity in a lengthwise split cylinder. Possibly it started as a 2 rectangular blocks and was turned cylindrical? Regardless, these 2 pieces were closely fitted into a cylindrical bore in an otherwise normal appearing set of mould blocks.

    In operation, after striking the sprueplate over, the blocks were then opened as per normal. The difference was that the 2 block halves and the 2 halves of the cylinder were connected via links. As the blocks opened, via the links they caused the split cylinder to part, and at the same time caused them to rotate away from each other. Doing this they could release the twisted, multi-faceted slug. Quite ingeneous, and quite expensive. I'd investigate having the cavity cut with a plunge EDM. You'd need a core bleed die (easy to make) to form cast cores into cores weighing within 0.10 grain or so. These cores would then go into your form die, swaged into shape and then ejected. You could easily use a hydraulic bench press of no more then 6 ton capacity to do the work.

    .................Buckshot
    Last edited by Buckshot; 12-12-2011 at 04:39 AM.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    Why not make a nose-pour mold and cast the bugger?

    This slug can be made with just a lathe and a drill press if you are very careful laying out the "rib" pattern. The ribs are made by drilling six 2.5mm (0.1") holes and then boring out the center part and the skirt in a lathe. (you can make a 2.5mm wide cut to begin with, to keep the drill from wandering)

    The weight is 32 gram (500gn) The outside diameter is 18.4 mm (0.7244") The center diameter must be at least 16.4mm (0.645") to keep the slug from binding in the mold (also, the parting line should lie on the centerline of two ribs.

    The bottom cavity is made from two parts, with a center core for the screw hole inside the skirt-core - this makes the profile easier to do.

    Cap'n Morgan

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


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    Do a search for .410 swage die, a member here has one that does something similar to that slug.

    Here is a link:


    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=.410+slug+die

  12. #12
    Boolit Mold
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    I post pics with my first brenneke and my swaging press inspired from yours forum and thank you longbow for help and email
    My first slug in not perfect but is a good starting point for and my press need some adjustment
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PC100008_2.jpg   PC100012_2.jpg   PC100015_2.jpg  

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    Looks like an excellent job to me.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

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    That was quick! Looks pretty good too.

    You might try using a real hard felt for attached basewads. The old Brennekes I had I think used leather disks on either side of hard felt. The newer ones look to use plastic disks/washers and a very hard felt like material.

    The biggest problem I have had is basewad material attaching base wads. That is why I went to cast on basewads of hot melt glue but those cannot rub against the barrel so have to be paper patched or made to fit into shotcups.

    If you have access to plastic rod like Delrin, nylon or maybe even polyethylene, a machined basewad might work.

    Whatever you use, you will likely need a jig to line it up for assembly to get consistent attachment.

    Looks good so far. Keep us posted on your progress.

    Longbow

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Releasing from a solid mold will be very problematic. Soft molds can work.

    I'm pretty sure that the Breneke is swaged and then pushed axially out of the die,
    spiraling as it comes out.

    I have read that the spiral ribs on any "rifled" slug do not actually impart spin, but just
    are there to collapse easily in passing through a choke. So the straigh ribs should work
    as well.

    Best of luck. I think that saboted boolits will be easier and will work as well.

    Bill
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtGun44 View Post
    Releasing from a solid mold will be very problematic.
    I'm pretty sure that the Breneke is swaged and then pushed axially out of the die,
    spiraling as it comes out.

    Bill
    To extract my slug after swagging first I push out the the inner parts from the tube, then pull the rear punch and strike easy the front swagging punch with a piece of wood and finally pushed axially to come out the breneke slug
    Not very complicated but I want to build a simple swagging die
    Longbow I don`t have lather to make leather disks but my felt I think is hard enough and I think to dip that in molten beeswax for better lube
    I don`t make yet a jig for consistent attachment but I will need one in the future.
    With so much celebration and holidays I don`t have time to test my slug in the range but I will test it soon
    I post some pics with my breneke complete assemble with basewad and with the original one
    Finaly I wish you a HAPPY NEW YEAR!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PC190009_1.jpg   PC190011_1.jpg   PC190013_1.jpg  

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I'm impressed with your swaging, and ability to manufacture such a complex die! Clearly it
    is doable, because Brenneke does it, but it seemed beyond the average garage tinkerer's
    capability.

    Clearly, you are WAY beyond the average garage tinkerer!

    Very nicely done.

    Bill
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Congrats otonel, you did a great job of making things come together for that slug.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    You can make a push through die as LongBow has descibed in other posts. It would cast a solid base slug though. The ribs could be added with a milling machine, and a radial Table, after boring the cavity.
    Greg

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I have managed to make nose pour hollow base ribbed slugs too in the same type of mould.

    One of the problems I found with ribbed slugs like Brenneke is that recovered slugs showed tipping in the barrel with ribs flattened "diagonally" nose to base. I can't explain why a long slug especially with attached wad would tip going through the forcing cone but they do often enough to cause problems.

    My ribbed slugs have 6 ribs about twice as wide as Brenneke's ribs so fewer ribs but about the same bearing area.

    I cast some 750 gr. ribbed hollow base slugs with attached basewad and recovered some that showed pretty significant tipping and poor accuracy. Why they would tip I do not know since the slug itself is longer than the jump to forcing cone... but they do. Heat treating might make them hard enough to resist the flattening of ribs. Brenneke's are HARD!

    I have found that casting to shotcup size (around 0.680") and loading into shotcups seems to give me more consistent results. I am thinking the shotcup cushions and guides the slug. Since it is also faster and easier to use shotcups than to make custom wad columns I am going that route now.

    I will be interested to see how otonel's slugs perform. It looks like they have five wide ribs but I can't quite tell from the photos. I have tried 4 wide ribs, 6 narrow ribs and 6 wide ribs but found I got flattening of ribs in all cases of bore size slugs using ACWW. Pure/soft lead would be worse.

    The other problem I ran into was consistent basewad construction and attachment even using a jig. I have started casting them on which works quite well and is easier than drilling, stacking and screwing together.

    These are good looking slugs otonel has made so I hope they work for him.

    Longbow

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