Over powder wads?

[tomme boy]

I have a bunch of Alcan and Herters 12 fiber wads in many thicknesses. Would these work for a over powder wad to shoot Maxi-balls and Lee REALS? I have a hole punch coming. I just don't have felt. I have no use for these fiber wads right now. Just thinking here.

[451 Pete]

Tomme,
The wads should work fine although I have a few of the old Alcan under shot cushion wads here that I think would probably crumble if I tried to punch them into something any smaller unless I maybe soaked them in some kind of lube like a canola oil. Probably just the condition mine are in.
As a thought you can also try the local Salvation Army or Goodwill and see if you can find any old felt hats for cheap. I have used this for a source of felt before. This felt material may be a little thin but you can always double it up until you can get something thicker if it seems to work.
Most of the rifles I have seem to shoot a little better with a heavy cardboard base wad than with felt material so you might want to try that also.

Take care ..... Pete

[Reload3006]

<hanging head in shame> ... I hawk the dollar fabrics at Wally world on the look out for suitable Wad material. when i find some i buy it and out comes my hole punches. Cheap effective. I also hawk the Clearance isle at the local hobby stores for cork ... same purpose.

[Maven]

Tomme,

If you tire of the Alcan wads and can't find felt locally try these folks: http://www.durofelt.com/
Excellent products and pricing + fast shipping.

[thunderthud]

for what purpose are you using over powder wads in a rifle? they serve no purpose. wasted effort imho.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

[451 Pete]

Thunderthud,
If I may interject here, in a single word, accuracy. A wad made of felt or of heavy cardboard will help to protect the base of the bullet from erosion from burning gas. The felt wad if so desired can also provide some additional lubrication to your bore. Most of the ML bullet rifles I have experiance with seem to prefer cardboard wads but I have a Whitworth that only likes a very heavy felt wad under it's bullets base to obtain it's best accuracy.

Pete

[cajun shooter]

You need to try the wads before dismissing them. Wads are used in cartridge rifles all the time and make a big difference down range.
I tried them in my 50 T/C Hawken and the groups became smaller. The proof is in the pudding. Later David

[thunderthud]

I have never tried them, I shoot patched rb.
However i will say that ml projectiles depend on the rifling & twist to maintain accuracy. Lee reals are riding the grooves and other picket balls do the same with their bearing bands. Recovered rb's & other lead projectiles exhibit no gas cutting . this includes Minies. As far as accuracy goes, all the rifles I ever built will pile one ball atop the other if you can hold it there. At 50yds. cloverleafs or touch shots are expected with no wads. How much better can it be? No disrespect meant but shooting a rifle off a bench dont mean nuthin' except for sighting in, after that its all off hand unless you are a bench shooter w/ a 14 pound rifle and all you do is punch paper. I'll stand by what I said, I doubt at a reasonable range & everything else being equal you could tell if you were shooting with a wad or not. Our club has some bench shooters that shoot bullets & rb from x-sticks, they dont use wads. David , what cartridge rifle you have that uses a wad? Curious. Pete, I live in Toledo, dont know how far that is from S. Indiana but you're ever up in this neck of the woods we can try some of them wads out at the range off a bench or offhand.

[excess650]

When I was experimenting with my TC Greyhawk for a hunting load with conicals I found that it did work much better with an over powder wad. I recall using a .05" wax disk and a .03" card wad between the powder and the base of the flatbase conical. I suspect that the wax and card acted as a gas check and allowed the conical to obturate with less gas cutting over the heavy powder charge I was using.

I've found that using felt Wonder Wads under a PRB will help a marginal thickness patch survive.

Don't blow off the idea if you haven't tried it.

[451 Pete]

Thunderthud,
In my post I was in reference mainly to ML Bullet rifles. Or maybe I should have said rifles shooting a bullet type projectile.

In my opinion using a wad can provide several advantages. As I said above it can protect of the base of the bullet, if it is lubricated felt it can provide additional lubrication for the bore and although I can not prove it (this being interior ballistics ), I think a wad may somewhat retard the expansion of the gas's in the bore and subsequently the bullets movement for a micro second forcing the bullet to better obturate or take to the rifling. This more so for bore diameter bullets than something with groove diameter driving bands. ( One of the rifles here is a Whitworth, a corkscrew bullet gun, if you will.. It shows a definite preference for a heavy felt wad. I have recovered bullets from it where a round PP bullet took the hexagonal shape of the rifling all the way up to the oglive of the nose of the bullet. )

I have found an advantage with a wad under a patched round ball in some few cases. This being where burn out of the patching mateial is happening from heavy powder charges. I used several layers of hornet nest material ( paper wasp nest ) to sucessfully protect the patch and it does work.

I do some things that are a bit different from most folks here with a muzzle loader. I can say that a lot of my shooting is done at the longer target ranges ( mid range at Friendship to 500 yds. ) with heavy powder charges and bullets weighing up to 560 grains. In this type of shooting any small change on the firing line will make a major change in the point of impact on the target. Every serious competitor that I know in this type of shooting uses a wad. I also have shot black powder cartridge rifles in NRA BPCS events and the same use of a wad holds true there. Although the wad material may vary from felt to poly to card the use of a wad is pretty much the norm.

So does using a wad make a difference? In my opinion, well, yes , no and maybe. Yes, at mid and long range's for bullet guns and target work. No, for most instances where you are shooting a round ball and a patch at reasonable round ball target and hunting distances. Maybe, depending on the rifle, powder and bullet combination in shooting out to about 100-150 yds.

BTW I am just south of Bloomington Indiana. I do get up to the Detroit area from time to time visiting family. Might take you up on that offer and will extend the same if your headed south or if you make any of the NMLRA shoots. Send me a PM.

Take care .... Pete

[Crawdaddy]

Are there any advantages to using them in sabot rounds? Anyone tried?

[thunderthud]

Pete, I would say we are on the "same page".

[excess650]

Are there any advantages to using them in sabot rounds? Anyone tried?

The sabot IS the over powder wad AND the patch.

[Crawdaddy]

I realize what the sabot is and does. My question was is there any added benefit.

[thunderthud]

the sabot is the shoe that holds the bullet and rides on the lands & grooves give spin to the projo.

[451 Pete]

Crawdaddy, your question could be the basis for the start of an experiment. Maybe give it a try and let us know what you find.

Pete

[Crawdaddy]

Pete

Just might do that as soon as my scope comes back from repair.

Thanks...

[skullmount]

Tomme,

If you tire of the Alcan wads and can't find felt locally try these folks: http://www.durofelt.com/
Excellent products and pricing + fast shipping.

Do they have cut wads on the site ? I can't seem to find them...or do you buy bulk and punch out your own ??

[451 Pete]

skullmount,
I checked out the site and it looks like you will have to punch out your own. The Whitworth came with a hexagonal wad punch when I bought it. I don't know what size you need but you can buy arch punch's at a hardware store to make about anything you would want.
I would suggest the dense felt for best results.

Pete