cure my ignorance

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Why, I have enjoyed each and every post on this topic and viewed them by my own experience, as much less than the heights of the OLYMPIC experience of others that it is, and that has let me smile at the screen and nod in agreement with parts of many and frown a little at others.

I never worried about post counts personally but can see where some may count them up as treasure though. Admittedly it struck me as odd to see that comment for sure, although I didn't care enough about that to take note of the author. .

Being as the BOSS had just stuck his head in and suggested a little moderation. I posted thinking the "*am fine thread" words I used would not be harmful to the exhuberance of technical wrangling and would assist in the patching discussion continuing on. I have sometimes found true gems of insight or truth in a tangle of experiences. I did say it was a misplaced worry about post counts though. MAYBE it isn't for some. There, I fixed it. Or maybe I could get some of mine transferred to a needy poster.


I still use the 9 pound 100% cotton rag bond I bought in 1967. You see, I had a lot and still have enough to patch up near anything I want. I do just that too. I've patched to bore and groove and sought moulds to match my papers , to match my bores and grooves, and sized some for the pure fun of it. It was a great thing to do before electronic communications, when you could speak to masters of the arts in some cases, and factory moulds were still reasonably good.

I don't have a Shiloh anything, although I still drool over the Shiloh 50-70 Military rifle I passed up foolishly many years ago. It was a wonderful piece. If my stock is questionable because of a rifle I don't have, I would say, the arsenal cherry ramrod bayonet trapdoor I shot for years makes up for that crime. Few have ever shot one as good as the one I had or could even get one these days. Shilohs stand in ranks like infantry regiments I hear.

For a fellow wanting to explore patching to see if he wanted that discipline, and do it on the cheap, I would still say what I said in my initial post at the start of the discussion. But I also was thinking the discussion was great, and he had to start somewnere in the light of his experience and would do just that. I would for sure. BvT

[montana_charlie]

I never worried about post counts personally but can see where some may count them up as treasure though. Admittedly it struck me as odd to see that comment for sure, although I didn't care enough about that to take note of the author. .

If you sashay back to http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...6&postcount=12, and note the quoted text at the top, the reason for the 'post count' mention might be more clear.

CM

[ss40_70]

well i found some paper .. the store i went to was very helpful . i the first person i talked to was the store manager , and while he didnt under stand exactly what i want to do he did know his product and gave me a few sample sheets of each type i wanted to try before i commit to buying .. was a much better experiance then expected ... after dinner i'm going to find something to roll them on , in the meantime though i thought i'd try to show a rather poor picture of my trusty well used and showing its age shiloh , nothing fancy , just a standerd no frills shooter





sorry its not a better picture its from my nephews cell phone

[Red River Rick]

SS40 70:

One would think that there's enough member's here on this board that could possibly send you a small number of 0.441" - 0.443" diameter straight sided PP bullets for you to try..............before you make the plunge!

FWIW.

RRR

[Don McDowell]

40-70 , nice looking rifle.
Try a 7/16 drill bit, it measures in a bit over .437 , that's getting close enough to a proper size bullet to let you know the increase in diameter.
I have a few .444, and .435's I could send you, but I'm out of .441 and 2's.
Rick Mulhern has one of Red River Ricks bullet moulds that throws a .441 bullet that shot very well to 900 yds for me.

[RMulhern]

40-70 , nice looking rifle.
Try a 7/16 drill bit, it measures in a bit over .437 , that's getting close enough to a proper size bullet to let you know the increase in diameter.
I have a few .444, and .435's I could send you, but I'm out of .441 and 2's.
Rick Mulhern has one of Red River Ricks bullet moulds that throws a .441 bullet that shot very well to 900 yds for me.

Don

Haven't forgotten to send you a few! But....hunting season is still in here so it'll be a while before I get to casting! Before it was ball games and now....well...I'm sure you understand!

Oh...this ones from Kansas! Had forked G2s!


RickKans by Sharps45 2 7/8, on Flickr

How you like my Sharps??

[ss40_70]

i spent last night patching every drill bit shank i could find that was close to .450 ..
and as most here already mentioned it looks like a .441 dia bullet is going to be my best choice along with the papermill paper to get started
i wrapped wet, dry stretching the paper and every way i could think of ... my wife wasnt impressed with me using the mouse pad as a work station .

i was impressed by how much you can actualy vary the finished dia just by doing it a differant way

i guess i just need to make a choice on what mold to buy ... i am leaning towards Dons suggestion of going with one of old west's adjustable molds .
the price is reasonable and the one mold of his i seen first hand looked very nice .
the greasers ive been shooting are a 535 grn postell and while they shoot very well im not conviced i need that heavy and long a bullet ..

i still need to research .. neck tension and what cases to use
from what i have read i'm going to guess that the ww cases ive been using arent my best choice . i do have a bag of 50 unused remington cases to try

[Red River Rick]

i guess i just need to make a choice on what mold to buy ... i am leaning towards Dons suggestion of going with one of old west's adjustable molds .

SS40 70:

Old West doesn't make a adjustable Paper Patch mould.

My mistake, they do make adjustable moulds

As far as I know, I'm NOT the only one!

RRR

[ss40_70]

thank you for clearing up my confusion , i have a bit of information overload happening

[Don McDowell]

Red River Rick, Old WESt makes several adjustable nose pour paper patch moulds. I own two of them at the moment.

40-70 I think you'll like that Old West .441 bullet, I'ld set the length to no longer than 1.35 inches, looking for a weight of 500 grs +- a very few. Or set it down to 1.1 inches and shoot a 425 gr bullet like the original 45-75 Sharps load, very accurate in all of my 45-70's.
I have a Lyman 45-70 size die that sizes the cases down just the right amount to barely let the patched bullet slide in..
I find Remington cases to work the best in my shiloh. Winchester are alright altho the case rim thickness varies enough it can give some small shaving problems in my Shiloh chamber.

[Lead pot]

Rick.

I keep looking at that funny looking black wood Sharps with a south pawed flush handle and a big eye on it

That is a nice Buck Feller what's the story behind all of this??

[Red River Rick]

Red River Rick, Old WESt makes several adjustable nose pour paper patch moulds. I own two of them at the moment.

Don:

Thanks for clarifying that info, I wasn't sure and obviously wrong!

RRR

[EDK]

Aside from all the remarks, there is a book on the subject if it's still around, called
The Paper Jacket by Paul Matthews
Wolfe Publishing Co.
Prescott Arizona
It covers EVERYTHING on the subject including how to do it.
Might be out of print and you would need to check with used book dealers.

The Matthews book is pretty good...has been reprinted by Wolfe and is readily available...got a second copy sealed in plastic. You might also consider getting a copy of LOADING AND SHOOTING PAPER PATCH BULLETS, A BEGINNERS' GUIDE by Randolph Wright. (SHILOH has it and sold a bunch at Quigley in 2010.)

[Don McDowell]

RR Rick, no problem. Brooks and Leeth also make nose pour adjustables, and there's another one somewhere in the midwest, but I can't recall the name at the moment.

[Buckshot]

...............SWAGE'EM



LEFT: Cup based 530gr HP's .443" wet wrapped with 9# onionskin, .450" RIGHT: 560gr cup based solids. A bit much for a 20" twist Worked okay in an 18" twist Rigby.



LEFT: 38-55, 292gr FBHP .374" patched with 9# onionskin, .381" RIGHT: Same slugs, center 2 run up into .374" sizer (bore size) so they could be seated out for MORE POWDER!



Just for fun, 577-450. Lee 457-405 solids patched 'as cast' (.458") using 20# bond for .472" over 38.0grs IMR3031, sorry

...................Buckshot

[Lead pot]

I swage and cast. The swage bullets are true and the length and bases can be changed as to what ever you want and one can take the cast bullets that are not filled as the mould warms up for cores and just run them through the swage and make then a few grains lighter but I cant say they shoot any better then a properly cast bullet will.
The expense is high to get set up for swaging and getting dies made in reasonable time is tough. You better have patience waiting to get the dies you order.
There are only three guys that make swage dies. The two Corbins and CH4D and I think Rick Kalynuik (KAL Tool & Die) Is starting to maybe get into making them.
One can swage a almost perfect consistent bullet using alloyed wire a lot faster then then casting but again with the custom moulds now being made and if your casting skills are up to par a cast bullet will shoot just a good as the swagged bullet.

Lp.

[Don McDowell]

Good looking bullets buckshot

[RMulhern]

Rick.

I keep looking at that funny looking black wood Sharps with a south pawed flush handle and a big eye on it

That is a nice Buck Feller what's the story behind all of this??

Kurt

I'll reply by PM! Noone here interested in hunting!

[wiljen]

Kurt

I'll reply by PM! Noone here interested in hunting!

no, never - none of us ever hunt around here.

[Lead pot]

Buckshot those are all fine bullet profiles except maybe the 560 grain for the slow twist. Especially the long elliptical nose. I have two for the .44-90 BN and they go crazy past 400 yards in my 1/19 ROT but they should do good in my .44-100 Rem straight with a 1/17 ROT when I get it build. Still waiting for the reamer. I had a bunch of them cast @ .432" and ran them through my .446 swage die that has the profile like your left .443's.