Paco's Accurizer

[Naphtali]

So where do you find these Hahn's dies ?

I apologize to all. I miswrote, thinking of cartridge tubes for my Sharps.

The 22 RF bump tool die set I have is made by:

Neal B. Waltz
4105 Hyatt N. W.
Massillon, OH 44648


I do not believe he has a web site, and I do not remember his email address. He is a retired tool & die maker who makes these die sets in batches a couple of times per year. If he has inventory, he ships immediately. If he does not, you'll wait until the next batch.

I think I paid about $150.00 for a die set with four reshaping punches. The master die fits into a standard reloading press.

For more information I suggest doing a web search for his name. If that fails, drop me a line.

Hope this helps.

[Larry Gibson]

As brotherdarrell indicates you must match the sizing to the gun for accuracy, so what's new there? Also you must have a rifle/handgun capable of using the improvement in sizing. If your rifle or handgun is a sow's ear sizing the ammo will probably not make either into a slik purse.

Dale53 is also correct to a point. Sizing bulk .22LR ammunition will not turn that ammo into world class match ammo. It won't do it in my match rifles either. It may (with most decently made sporter rifles) make the bulk shoot as almost as well as top end match ammo in them. A lot depends on the quality of the rifle. In medium quality .22 sporter rifles it will make some of the bulk ammo, especially if weight sorted also, shoot as well as the top end match ammo. In low end .22LR rifles it is a **** shoot if any improvement in accuracy can be made by swaging vs out of the box ammo.

If you've a low end .22LR rifle or handgun don't expect accuracy miracles and it's probably not worth the expense of the tool. If you have a quality sporter or one that is accurate to begin with using quality .22LR ammo then it's probably worth the effort to improve accuracy and lethality with the tool. If you've a match rifle you can get decent low cost, low end match accuracy out of the cheaper ammuntion swaged .22LR for practice. Lots of difference in price between Blaser vs Eley, RWS or Wolf Match ammuntion. Just depends on what you want and the effort you want to put into it.

I use swaged .22LR ammunition to improve accuracy and lethality in all of my seriously used .22LR rifles and handguns for hunting/shooting squirrels and rabbits. Swaged to .225 copper coated bulk Fed/Win also is more accurate in the .223 upper with 12" twist using the M261 sub cal device. I use swaged and weight sorted Blasers in my match .22LR rifle for practice and informal matches. For serious matches which most often involve an entry fee I use match ammuntion out of the box of excellent quality. For plinking with my old single shot JC Higgens .22LR out of the box bulk ammunition works as well as anything.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Naphtali

That is also the "Waltz die" I mention. It also is an excellent tool.

Larry Gibson

[crabo]

The Paco does a good job but I gave up on using a mallet as my wacking consistency wasn't to be bragged about. I use and old Craftsman drill press stand (sans the hand drill) as an arbor press with it. The press has stop adjustments so repeatability and consistency of the swaged .22LR ammo is excellent.

Larry Gibson

1. Larry can you show us a picture of your drill press setup? I am wondering how you can make the setup accurately repeatable. I have stops on my drill press, but am having problems visualizing the repeatability of it.

2. Also what is your favorite nose profile for terminal effects on small game?

3. Am I correct that the Waltz die is for swaging only, and the Paco tool swages and reshapes the nose? The Waltz would be easy to set up and repeat, and the Paco is going to be harder to repeat the adjustment?

[brotherdarrell]

I gave up on the mallet method pretty quick. Went to harbor freight and got an arbor press for $25, went to the hardware store and got a replacement bolt(6mm?). Much more consistant.

As stated above this will not make match ammo from bulk. In my cz winchester sub-sonic would be much more accurate than cci, except for the fliers. This tool will not get rid of fliers. And I would point out that each of my .22's still prefers certain brands of ammo even after going through the paco tool.

[/IMG]

[brotherdarrell]

try that again. not enough practice with photos.

brotherdarrell

[/IMG]

[Larry Gibson]

crabo

Larry can you show us a picture of your drill press setup? I am wondering how you can make the setup accurately repeatable. I have stops on my drill press, but am having problems visualizing the repeatability of it.

1st photo is of drill press. Once I lined up the Paco tool I traced around the bottom with a magic marker for repeatability of placing the tool.

2nd photo shows drill stops. I have marked th top one into quaters so I can give 1/4 adjustments. I've also marked the threads so I can traxk how many are used. When testing I mark the various settings as "NN - 1 1/4V". That means I used the nasty nose stem and adjusted the stop to 1 1/4 threads down from top mark. A "NN - 1 1/4V - HP -2 1/2V" means the same for the nasty nose but then I used the HP at 2 1/2 turns down on the stop. The stop is split so I use the top of the top one as reference and the bottom stop to lock it in place.

2. Also what is your favorite nose profile for terminal effects on small game?

On edible squirels, grouse and rabbits I use the Nasty Nose. On varmints I use the HP and open it as large as accuracy allows (You can swage and/or open the HP too much and destroy accuracy)

3. Am I correct that the Waltz die is for swaging only,

No, the Waltz swages but is limited to 1 size; .225" and it also with HP or flatten the nose with a Eley TeX dimple in the middle. It comes with the 2 punches.

and the Paco tool swages and reshapes the nose?


The Waltz would be easy to set up and repeat, and the Paco is going to be harder to repeat the adjustment?

Yes the Waltz is easier, espially in the Lee hand press, and more "portable". I can sit in my easy chair and do a couple thousand .22LRs while watching a movie. I track the adjustments by measuring the OAL from bottom of die to top of "seating stem" with a caliber. It is very repeatable that way. The drill press for the Paco tool is very repeatable the way I use it, not really hard at all. That set up requires a bench or table where the Waltz in the Lee hand press does not. Pro's and con's to both.

Larry Gibson

[brotherdarrell]

Ok, I give up. On the side of the arbor press is a lock collar for the handle. On the lock collar is a set screw. Replace the set screw with a longer bolt and use the screws on the side of the press as a stop for the longer bolt, thus being able to set a consistant depth. Will see if I can figure out this photo stuff. The pic explains very well.

brotherdarrell

[brotherdarrell]

try again

[GaryN]

Thanks Guys, this info has been a great help in deciding what to do.

[Larry Gibson]

Ok, I give up. On the side of the arbor press is a lock collar for the handle. On the lock collar is a set screw. Replace the set screw with a longer bolt and use the screws on the side of the press as a stop for the longer bolt, thus being able to set a consistant depth. Will see if I can figure out this photo stuff. The pic explains very well.

brotherdarrell

Obviously your press is quite different than mine. However, if there is a stop of sorts the principles are the same. Appears you've a solution.

Larry Gibson

[crabo]

SO Larry, if you were only going to buy one of the tools, which would you buy, Waltz or Paco's?

[crabo]

Check this one out

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...do=ad&id=32854

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...ighlight=waltz

[Larry Gibson]

SO Larry, if you were only going to buy one of the tools, which would you buy, Waltz or Paco's?

That is a very tough question. Every time I think I've the answer I think of the uses for the other tool. The difference between them to me are; the Waltz die is simpler to use, the Paco tool is the most versitile. Really hard to pick.........

Larry Gibson

[USAF Shirt]

Larry,

I've have one of the phase 4 Paco tools, with all 3 forming rods for about 6 months. Are the forming rods with yours loose in the "die"? All 3 of mine are, and I can NEVER get a decently centered hollw point, dish nose, etc. when trying to form standard round nose ammo. I have tried several brands, and in all die diameters..The only good use for the tool so far is enlarging existing hollow point ammo, as the existing HP centers the forming rod for me. I would absolutely love to be able to make decently centered HP ammo out of bulk round nose. This is the whole reason I purchased the tool. To be honest, i am not real happy with it considering the price I paid. Do you have any tips/tricks? I guess I could shell out some more dough and have closer fitting pins machined, but i sure wish I didnt have to. Any thoughts?

[GaryN]

USAF Shirt: Not that you should have to do this to make it work but try some thin tape to fill up the gap.

[Larry Gibson]

USAF Shirt

Have to say that is the only "problem" I found with the Paco tool. I put a small steel shim around the forming rods to keep them centered. It stays in the die when changing rods.

Larry Gibson

[brotherdarrell]

I put a wrap of beagle tape at the end of my cupping rod. Having said that I use the nasti nose on existing h.p.'s for 99% of what I do.

brotherdarrell

[USAF Shirt]

Thanks guys! I thought I was the only one with loose forming rods. Never thought of shimming/beagle taping the rod. I will definitely give that a shot.