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Thread: Paco's Accurizer

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Paco's Accurizer

    I read a while back about Paco's accurizer tool. It sounded very promising. At the time, it sounded like people were having trouble getting a hold of him. So I let it slip and I forgot about it. I'm still interested. Does anyone know if he still sells them? Is he any easier to get a hold of? How well do they work at increasing the accuracy?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Gunblast did a update in 2008. In that article he said Paco has a new website as of August of this year. Dont know if that helps. Here is the article and website.

    http://www.gunblast.com/Paco2.htm

    http://www.pacotools.com/

  3. #3
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    I've a 2 hole Paco tool I got from him in '05. I also use the Waltz die. Don't know about how quickly either of them are to get these days.....

    The Paco does a good job but I gave up on using a mallet as my wacking consistency wasn't to be bragged about. I use and old Craftsman drill press stand (sans the hand drill) as an arbor press with it. The press has stop adjustments so repeatability and consistency of the swaged .22LR ammo is excellent.

    Accuracy most often is improved with the cheaper makes of .22LR as the swaging gives them a consistent "fit" to the chamber/throat/groove depth of the barrel. With the better "match" variety .22LR accuracy is not improved as it's probably as good as it will get out of the box. The "swaging" of the cheaper stuff just adds some quality control that is already prevalent in the match ammo.

    However, the swaging of even the match .22LR into a "nasty Nose" dramatically increases the terminal effect of that ammo. A NN + a HP makes Blaser ammo very terminally effective + more accurate. I swage and re HP the bulk Federal, Winchester and Remington ammuntion as that also increases the terminal effect and makes it more accurate. You have to test each type of .22LR ammuntion with varying and increasing amounts of swaging and nose alteration to determine how much to do. You can swage and alter the nose too much and destroy accuracy and feeding reliability, especially in autos and mag fed guns. Each type will take only so much before accuracy goes south....really fast.

    Photo shows some .22LRs swaged ready to test.

    Larry Gibson
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 02-03-2012 at 07:59 PM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    "I use and old Craftsman drill press stand (sans the hand drill) as an arbor press with it. The press has stop adjustments so repeatability and consistency of the swaged .22LR ammo is excellent. "


    Good idea.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I wonder if this ammo modification would help accuracy in the Ruger single six, which has an oversize bore as a compromise between the L.R. and mag. rounds?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olevern View Post
    I wonder if this ammo modification would help accuracy in the Ruger single six, which has an oversize bore as a compromise between the L.R. and mag. rounds?
    I swage/mocify .22LR to a SWC (almost like a Keith SWC) HP for use in my .22LR revovler (not a Ruger) and they shoot more accurately and terminal ballistics are greatly improved. A friend(?) with a Ruger single six kyped a handfull on our last squirrel hunt to use and now he wants me to swage more for him. Just cant trust them Ruger owners........oops, I am a Ruger owner several times over......

    Larry Gibson

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    I swage/mocify .22LR to a SWC (almost like a Keith SWC) HP for use in my .22LR revovler (not a Ruger) and they shoot more accurately and terminal ballistics are greatly improved. A friend(?) with a Ruger single six kyped a handfull on our last squirrel hunt to use and now he wants me to swage more for him. Just cant trust them Ruger owners........oops, I am a Ruger owner several times over......

    Larry Gibson
    Larry,
    Is that with the Paco accurizer?
    "The trick is to stop thinking of it as 'your' money" (Tax Auditor)

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olevern View Post
    Larry,
    Is that with the Paco accurizer?
    I can do it with the Waltz die but I prefer the form the SWC shape with the Paco tool using the Nasty Nose punch and then form the HP with the HP punch.

    Larry Gibson

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryN View Post
    I read a while back about Paco's accurizer tool. It sounded very promising. At the time, it sounded like people were having trouble getting a hold of him. So I let it slip and I forgot about it. I'm still interested. Does anyone know if he still sells them? Is he any easier to get a hold of? How well do they work at increasing the accuracy?
    Were you unable to obtain this "bump" tool, Hahn's die set is the most useful - and expensive - bump tool on the market. And reshaping and regularizing 22 RF bullet noses with it achieves dramatic improvements in accuracy. And if you configure as LFN/wadcutter, killing power increases dramatically.

    Hope this helps.
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  10. #10
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    So where do you find these Hahn's dies ?

  11. #11
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    there was a fellow on a different site that made a set of those reform tools. Has anyone shot any targets and did a side by side comparison of results with unaltered and altered ammo?

  12. #12
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    I haven't save a lot of targets but here is an example;

    Test rifle is the Remington M504
    Range is 50 yards
    1st target: Blaser .22LR out of the box; 10 shots
    2nd target: Balser (same box) .22LRPaco tool swaged with Nasty Nose punch at "3V" setting on press

    I have fine tuned this so my swaged Blaser .22LRs now run .5 - .75" for 10 shot groups.

    Larry Gibson
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 02-03-2012 at 07:59 PM.

  13. #13
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    I had a friend with a lathe make me a "Hanned" tool (Hanned was out of business) that allowed me to file the nose off leaving a Round Flat design. Bulk .22's did shoot better with Blazer being the best of the bunch.

    Further, the flat nose worked exactly like a WFN or WLN LBT bullet does in a handgun. You could hear the "Plop" as the bullet hit the squirrel. Commercial hollow points damage too much meat (I typically go for head shots but squirrels sometimes hide their heads and the only shot available is a body shot). At any rate, a round nose .22 through the slats will often lose you that squirrel (he runs off to die and often is unrecoverable). With the Hanned tool, the stopping power is great without damaging too much meat.

    I later bought a Paco tool set as it is easier (and faster) to use. Use of a drill press or an arbor press that allows consistent performance is the key.

    At any rate, these tools DO work as advertised.

    FWIW
    Dale53
    Last edited by Dale53; 12-16-2011 at 08:16 PM.

  14. #14
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    Dale, my old Nana would cringe at those head shot squirrels . She wanted 'em shot in the neck, 'cause she loved squirrel brains - me , I never warmed up to pork or squirrel brains !

    I've seen promising results from a friend's Waltz dies - might haveta have me one of these things to play with. Maybe somebody here like BT might look into making a similar product ?

  15. #15
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    shooterg;
    I grew up on a farm. Squirrels were plentiful. The circles I ran it considered it almost sacrilegious to shoot a squirrel with a shotgun. Head shots demonstrated the rifleman's ability (braggin' rights, doncha know). However, if a squirrel didn't expose his head then I was not about to pass up a good body shot. Hollow points certainly worked on body shots but tore up too much meat.

    In my later squirrel hunting years, I used a modern Marlin lever action in 25/20. I used Lyman's 257420 gas check flat nosed bullet. It worked best of all.

    However, I would NOT hesitate for an instant when declaring that a modified flat nosed .22 rim fire would do the job best of the rim fire .22's.

    In the spirit of full disclosure, I will also state that a cast bullet (flat nosed Lyman 225415 loaded at speeds of 1200-1400 fps in a .22 Hornet, .221 Fireball (I have single shot rifles in both calibers) as well as the formerly highly popular .222 Remington and the present .223 will do an excellent job, as well.

    Squirrel hunting with rifles is a superior sport, without a doubt!

    I have never been a ball sport fan, but, rather, enjoyed outdoor sports like "Squirrels with rifles, Deer with handguns, and Quail with shotguns" now THOSE are SPORTS. (of course, I can't forget the years I spent racing motorcycles, paddling canoes and kayaks, and wilderness back packing)...

    Shooterg,
    Brains of any kind on the plate do NOT interest me - I don't knock what someone else finds interesting, but just not for me.


    Dale53

  16. #16
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    I made my own rimfire reforming tool similar to the Paco but to be honest, if all you want is a broad, flat nose then a really simple solution is to get an old rimfire barrel, lop of the chamber and cut to allow the nose of a cartridge to stick up through the top. A coarse file or pocket knife will then whack the nose off the bullet to form FN. You could benefit from hardening the 'chamber' to prevent wear from the file also.
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  17. #17
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    Jeff,

    The Paco accurizer is more than a flat nose or hollow-point tool. It is designed with several "chambers" of different diameter (.222, .223, .224, & .225) There are four "punches" that for different bullet nose-shapes: hollow point, "nasty nose", flat point, and shallow dish. When forming these bullet noses, the bullet diameter is bumped up to the diameter of the chamber in which it is held. By forming bullets to specific diameters you can determine the exact diameter your particular rimfire rifle is most accurate with. Bullet weight is unchanged, hunting effectiveness is often improved and once you find the correct diameter for your gun, cheap ammo can shoot as good as high-priced match ammo.

  18. #18
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    The reshaping of the .22LR nose certainly makes it a more deadly killer but that is only half the equation. It's the swaging of the .22LR bullets to a uniform and consistent diameter The provides for a better "fit" to the barrel and generally, with the cheaper ammo like Blaser or the bulk stuf adds to a more connsitent and lessor shot to shot variation. The 2 groups above were fired without a change of the scope adjustments, poa was the bottom of the 1" diamond. Obviously the swaging of the .22LR Blasers to a consistent .225 not only improved accuracy but it had a decided effect on the velocity.

    As mentioned the PACO can be had with 4 different sizes. Mine has 2 different sizes; .224 and .225. The Neil Waltz die swages to .225". The swaging is necessary for any improvement in accuracy.

    Larry Gibson

  19. #19
    Boolit Master



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    While I have the Paco tool (as well as a Hanned Precision clone) and I have noticed an improvement in accuracy, this tool will NOT make Eley 10X out of Blazer. It just simply is not so.

    I have a variety of small bore match rifles, and nothing you can do will make bulk ammo into world class match ammo - that is simply "reaching".

    Just so you know...

    Dale53

  20. #20
    Boolit Master brotherdarrell's Avatar
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    I've used the paco tool (all 4 sizes) since getting it in June of this year. I shoot rock squirrels in local pecan orchards and was trying to maximize accuracy and lethality w/sub-sonic and also trying to get a single six to group instead of patterning. I used the ammo in a number a guns with different results.

    ruger single six - no help, the bore measured .2255 and no mater what I did could'nt get under 3" groups at 25 yds. no longer own it.

    stock ruger 10-22 - when bumped up to .225 w/nasti-nose got consistant sub - 1" groups at 50 yds. started at 1 1/4 to 1 1/2".

    stock savage mkII bv - when bumped to .224 w/nasti-nose got consistant 1/2 - 5/8 groups at yds, started at " groups.

    stock ruger mkIII target w/weaver scope set at 6x - 50 yd groups dropped from 1 1/2 down to 1 1/4 with ammo sized to .223 or .224. but then again I am no pistolero.

    norinco em332 - sized to .223 there was little difference in accuracy.

    cz 452 u-lux - no difference at all in accuracy.

    cricket pistol - accuracy at 50 yds did not change, with scope got consistant 1" groups when I did my part.

    One thing I noticed as far as accuracy goes - the tighter the bore the less sizing made a difference in accuracy. With the savage win. super - x gave patterns at 100 yds around 12 to 14" for 5 shots. After bumping up to .224 groups dropped to 2 - 3" at the same distance. Fed. lightening was the same. This same ammo in the cz and the em332 give sub 1" at 50 yds out of the box. Also fed and win where consistantly smaller in diam. out of the box.

    The biggest difference I found was with performance on game. Using cci sub-sonic straight out of the box I would get pass throughs on adult rock squirrels, and the young hardly slowed the bullet. After the nasti-nose exits on the young were over and inch in diameter, and the bullets would not exit on the adults. I hit a half grown jack rabbit at 50 yds and it gave a shudder and just sort of tipped over after the shot with barely a twitch. I shot in the area of 200 plus squirrels from may to oct. When hit in the chest with the nasti-nose they were dead right now, very little twitching or moving.

    In short, my experience this last year is that if you want better accuracy you might get it depending on the gun. If you want better performance it will definitly deliver.

    brotherdarrell

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check