That bullet looks pretty good seated. I thought that it would have to go deeper than that. The 225462 seats deeper than that.
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That bullet looks pretty good seated. I thought that it would have to go deeper than that. The 225462 seats deeper than that.
I may just have to get that mould........Originally Posted by 357 Voodoo
Larry Gibson
That ammo works quite well in 7 - 9" twist ARs when the .22LR device is used, better if they are suppressed. I use a M261 in my ARs.
Larry Gibson
this is ment as a fyi for some do not know about this and thay think you have to sink a lot of mony in to after looking at corbin stuff
or pick up 22lr case and make 224 builts out of them heres a link http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...123845&page=10 this is the revew page for the die sets DanR on the site sell them
this is so you can stop shooting lead in your ARs if you what too
Last edited by xfoxofshogo; 12-09-2011 at 01:30 AM.
Xfoxofshogo,
this is the cast bullet forum. This is also America. Both are based on individual rights, this one is specifically dedicated to casting lead alloy boolets and shooting them in all sorts of firearms; including the AR-15.
Having a section on swaging j-word bullets is as a courtesy to the VERY few members who have an interest in doing things with j-bullets.
Try and stay on topic...
regards,
Rich
sorry idaho
just saying for the ones that are not sher thay whant to shoot cast in ther AR and do not know you can swage builts for it chep as the cast and shoot it with the loads that are ment for a AR it was a fyi
as for your respons you did not need to call me out in the forum next time use a pm
and the title is " CB Loads / Military Rifles " it dose not say cast olny
Last edited by xfoxofshogo; 12-08-2011 at 02:26 PM.
You are correct on one point, the title is "CB Loads/Military Rifles. The "CB" is short for cast bullets. Nowhere does the word jacketed or swaged bullets appear.
1. Sure not sher
2. they not thay
3. want not whant
4. their not ther
5. cheap not chep
6. bullets or boolets not builts
7. meant not ment
8. it is an AR not a AR
9. response not respons
10. only not olny
The little red wiggly line underneath a word suggests that you may have misspelled it.
That said, I did not "call you out"; I merely suggested that your comments might have been ill considered and way off topic. Think of the post as a point/counterpoint like a debate.
as a final aside, Idaho is always spelled with a capitol "I"
regards,
Rich in Idaho
xfoxofshogo
I really don't understand why some folks get all up in arms about shooting cast out of AR's? They will not "Plug up" your gas tube with lead. If its a concern then all you have to do is fire a couple of 5.56mm after you've shot lead and I guarentee you'll unplug any lead in the tube! If I can get about the same performance with lead that I get with jacketed bullets why not use lead?
"if the pc i was of had spellcheck"
I don't want to be the grammar nazi or something, because after all this is an informal discussion board. That being said, when I have to read something six times to figure it out it gets really annoying quick.
some time a thread needs to be hi jack this is one of the times
Tell me some thing you ever half to go some where fast and do not have time to check what you put down
with a PC that like to cut out stuff or a spell check that has no clue
i do not know Y you all love to burn all you see for ther spelling its a sickness you have and shows you get mad over nothing and shod not have a gun at all its ones like you that shoot a kid or some one because your mad at some thing
im sorry i did not get the fance schooling you did
can you say broke as in you do not eat but one time a day
i been doing grunt work form the age of 13
i have work 3 times harder thin you i bet to get to where im at just to have food ever night
As for this room CB Loads / Military Rifles i take the / as and military rifles which would mean is not just a CB only room
i do not think it just only for CB loads for there are how many CB rooms on this form for CB loads and only one room for sewage theirs no sewage / military rooms or a sewage room under guns&shooting
and as for shooting cast in a AR i have nothing against it i just do not like scraping lead out of the gun
just how many times will you have to clean it for 2k fired i do a lot of shooting and my guns all look new for i take care of them and i can go out and shoot 4k to 8k in my AR and never have to cram a round down the barrel to push out allot of lead and I'm shooting 223 cheaper then the guys shooting 22lr drop-ins
and a 22lr slug is smaller then the 224 slug
if you what to call some one out pm him but you better Talk to nut45 and see if you have a right to do so
its not that it plugs up your gas tube it gets in your bolt and other places as well and builds up and firing a jacketed down the barrel will take some lead out of the barrel but not your gas tube and if for some reason you have allot of lead in the barrel that it blows your gun up just think what will happen if it stops just the other side on the gas tube hole it may not be a good thing
i have seen guns go boom form stuff in the barrel
and how much money will you spend for low velocity might as well shoot a drop-in
win for the same a mount you can shoot jacketed full loads and go 1000 yards
and then you can buy the full auto stuff and have real fun
there no way in hell i shoot cast in a full auto
Last edited by xfoxofshogo; 12-09-2011 at 02:40 AM. Reason: fps is velocity lol
I shoot about 500 and then i run a patch down the bore and clean the bolt carrier group after each use which is the same as when i shoot jacketed.
I don't have any kind of leading on any part of my rifle with my 16" upper I have a round count of 4583 of nothing but cast. Boolit fit and powder selection are what matters. I have no more carbon build up than when I shot jacketed. My accuracy is just as good as i have already shown.
If you wish not to shoot cast that is perfectly fine but don't be perpetuating myths that cast can't be shot from an ar.
xfoxofshogo
Nope properly sized and the right alloy/good lube - IE don't run them to fast and use a gas check- equals zero leading my freind! I do no more then run my bore snake through three times an the bore is clean!
not looking to start a myths did you not read i have nothing ageist shooting lead in a AR i just do not do it my self and i was letting the ones that may not know about some thing know
what kind of velocity you get ????
how good is it at say 200 or 400 ????
and do you ever rapid fire it with cast ????
or full auto ??????
what dose it do then ????
just whiting to know
A gen not saying cast is bad do you not read the post
i cast and i cast for a lot of my guns just not the AR i cant for my kind of AR it has a 1-8 twist rate 20" barrel and i shoot it as fare as it will go with a 6-24x50 scope on it
theirs no way cast will hold up in that gun win maxing out the load
I guess i been puting this the wrong way cast is bad in a hi twist rate win shooting hot loads or using it to blow a way a lot of cans fast
o ps last post here im not coming back so do not even post to me you want to talk pm or see you in chat
Last edited by xfoxofshogo; 12-09-2011 at 02:51 AM.
I know that I am over 1000 rounds through mine this year alone because I went through a whole box of gas checks, and that's the only .22 that I use gas checks with. I will say, though, that wax can build up in the chamber after some time, so I usually only clean the chamber when I get home. Everything else doesn't get any dirtier than using ball ammo. A few years back when everyone couldn't find ammo, or if they did it was ungodly expensive, I was shooting for 6-7 cents a round all day.
Xfoxofshogo
You may not want to “start myths” but it appears you believe several of them regarding the use of lead bullets in the AR.
My experience with ARs goes back to early ’65 with the XM16. My experience with cast in the .223 started in ’70, in the ARs I started shooting cast out of M16A1s and Mini 14s in the mid ‘70s. I had access to the M16s through NG Marksmanship. I also shot lots of cast through M1 carbines, my M1a and M14s. Back to the point….
In the mid 70s the M261 .22LR device became available for the M16. As a marksmanship instructor I used a lot of those devices in countless M16A1s on indoor 50 ft ranges and outdoor 25 meter ranges with the soldiers firing thousands upon thousands of .22LR ammunition, mostly Winchester “white box”. After the prep training with the .22LR devices the soldiers would transition, after cleaning the rifles (gas tubes were not cleaned out) and replacing the M261 device with the regular bolt, to the 25 meter zero range to zero with M193 ammunition. There was not a single malfunction of failure to function with a single M16A1 attributable to a plugged gas tube. The only functional problems were almost always soldier caused or from damaged/dirty magazines.
In the ‘90s I worked full time at an SF unit where we kept 2 M16A1s for use on the indoor range with the M261 devices. The M16A2s and the M4s were not as accurate with their 7” twist barrels with the .22LR ammo. After those 2 M16A1s had put over 2 cases (that’s 10,000 rounds) of ammo through them (I didn’t track how many rounds through each but it was probably close to a 50/50 split) without cleaning the barrels or the gas tubes I test fired each with M193 ammunition. Both of those M16A1s functioned perfectly without a single failure to function.
During the same time I also did extensive testing of cast bullets in the M4, M16A2, M16A1 and my own Colt Comp with 9” twist. In thousands of test rounds fired (was nice having an indoor range that would take such loads at work) I never experienced a single case of gas tube fouling. If you stop and think about it there is a lot of psi in that tube and the bolt, especially with loads that function the action. That psi blows whatever fouling there may be through the gas tube and out into the bolt/carrier gas piston area (as already mentioned). For S&Gs I shot 500 cast bullet loads through one of those M16A1s without a single instance of gas tube blockage or the action failing to function. Normal cleaning after the 500 rounds took care of whatever fouling was in the bolt and receiver.
Subsequently I have fired probably thousands of cast through my own M16 upper with a 12” twist. I have also fired thousands of .22LR through it using my own M261 device.
BTW; The TM for the M261 states that if an M16A1 does get fouling in the gas tube to fire M193 through it to clear it out. I doubt the TM would say that if there was even the remotest danger of blowing the rifle up. I know of no instance of that ever happening and I always got all the “safety messages” regarding weapon malfunctions and problems put out by the DOA.
Thus, based on the DOA experience with thousands of the M261 devices having been used and those of us with years and thousands upon thousands of cast bullets through gas guns including the AR you might understand that your concepts regarding the use of lead .22LR bullets and cast bullets are not correct.
Thanks for your time reading this as it has been a long but necessary post.
Larry Gibson
Re: Larry's long and detailed post above:
The voice of LONG experience, gang. Take it to the bank, because it's solid gold....
Regards from BruceB in Nevada
"The .30'06 is never a mistake." - Colonel Townsend Whelen
Xfoxofshogo
what kind of velocity you get ???? I haven't chronied these load - chrony took a bullet awhile back- it died
how good is it at say 200 or 400 ???? I haven't shot these loads passed 50 yards yet I'll let you know.
and do you ever rapid fire it with cast ???? Yes the last group I shot was one right after the other not supper fast but continued semi firing. Civi no auto fire capable!
or full auto ??????
what dose it do then ???? As I said above functioned perfectly except for bolt lock back last round.
just whiting to know
Let me through in my experiences since I had access to FA weapons and did fire cast bullets through them.
My current load with my .223/5.56 load using 225462 runs 2400 fps with RL19 or H4831SC and 2300 with RL22. All three loads function the action of my M16 upper with milspec 12" twist 20" barrel. Back when I had access to the 2 M16A1s they also function quite nice on FA. However, I learned many years ago that spray and pray was not the way to shoot FA (fun but not really practical) any automatic rifle. Thus I learned how to correctly shoot FA with 2-3 round bursts as you are supposed to. Accuracy (ability to hit a target) went up dramatically with the M16 series, the M14A1 and the BAR. We even had a couple of the M261s that were modified for FA fire. With a reliable mag insert and copper plated HS .22LRs the 10 rounds would go through the barrel quite quickly with one pull of the trigger
I even ran a 50 round belt of my cast 223 loads through a SAW once (also did the same with my 7.62 cast loads through an M60). Action seemed a little sluggish on slow fire but ripped right along in the fast fire mode. All 50 shots in both guns without a malfunction.
I've shot lots of my cast bullet loads through M14s as during the post Viet Nam cuts we got very little ammo in the USAR so we used our own. Also shot lots of my cast '06 loads through BARs as that was the only ammo we could get at all short of buying our own at the time. BABore may be surprised to know that "4895 with a bag of dacron" did the trick with 311299s in both the 7.62 and '06. I didn't need 75 different powders sitting on my shelf to "gitter done".
Fired the 7.62 and '06 out of the M14s and BARs to 300 meters witth very good results, qualified "expert" with the M14 over the 40 shot course anywayI've shot the '06 load to 600 yards out of my M1903 with fairly good results, at as good as with M2 at that distance. I mostly shoot the .223/5/56 cast loads to 200 yards for plinking, small game and target practice. Accuracy is equal to most lots of M193.
I've also shot thousands of cast bullets through various M1 Carbines and M2 Carbines both semi and FA. Other than mag feed problems with battered, abused or cheap mags there was no functioning problems and no leading of the gas system. I did have one that lead would plug the gas port sometimes and cause a short cycle. The hole was slightly reamed which solved the problem.
Proper choice of alloy, bullet design, lube, GC and powder burning rate to ensure functioning at a proper velocity level for accuracy is all that's needed. BTW; I learned about WQing cast bullets and the use of slower burning powders out of the mould for automatic weapons to function with cast bullets via an article many years ago in the American Rifleman. It was about a machine gun dealer who needed cheaper bullets for doemonstration firing of his machine guns he had for sale. He used various cast bullets in 7mm, .30, .31 and 8mm machine guns. Been using and refining what I learned in that article for many years....it works.
Larry Gibson
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| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
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| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
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