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Thread: Cast Bullet Loads for Military Rifles - Article

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
    adrians's Avatar
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    THANKS for this god send ,i have been searching the web ,,, books ,,,and everything else to find what i just read .
    advice--- print page #1( 7 sheets of paper when done) you never know when the almighty electo-bug may strike your computer and render you data less. great read

  2. #42
    Boolit Master Bert2368's Avatar
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    I have found this thread very useful...

    16 gr 2400 with #311291 out of an 03 Springfield:


    Same, but the wind had come up.



    16 grain charge of #2400 is universal for all calibers as a starting load. It is mild and accurate in any larger military case from a 30-40 Krag or .303 British up through a 30-06 or 7.9x57, with standard weight bullets of suitable diameter for the caliber. This is my recommendation for anybody trying cast bullets loads for the first time in a military rifle without prior load development.
    Last edited by Bert2368; 10-22-2010 at 11:03 AM.
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

  3. #43
    Boolit Master madsenshooter's Avatar
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    Now I see why you're disappointed with your Garand loads!

  4. #44
    Boolit Master Bert2368's Avatar
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    I need to take the '03 to the Dr.- I think it's coming down with a case of the bugholes.
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

  5. #45
    Boolit Man whitetailsniper's Avatar
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    BERT 2368,
    VERY IMPRESIVE! NICE SHOOTING, im going to try that load data. i just love this site. sooo much info,,so little time. i am acting like a sponge,,,im just taking it allll in,and note making to boot. YOU GUYS ROCK!!

  6. #46
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    This is my project this winter -- getting my '03A1 Mark I shooting with cast boolits.

    Does anyone know how close (or far) the battle sight setting is from the small-game/target load and the 16gr 2400 load, at say, 25 yrds & 100 yrds?
    Group Buy Honcho for: 9x135 Slippery, 45x200 Target (H&G68), 45x230 Gov't Profile, 44x265 Keith


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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMineA10mm View Post
    This is my project this winter -- getting my '03A1 Mark I shooting with cast boolits.

    Does anyone know how close (or far) the battle sight setting is from the small-game/target load and the 16gr 2400 load, at say, 25 yrds & 100 yrds?
    Well, I can answer my own question, at least partially. The Small-Game/Target load shoots about 5" low at 25 yards from the battle sight setting...

    Group Buy Honcho for: 9x135 Slippery, 45x200 Target (H&G68), 45x230 Gov't Profile, 44x265 Keith


    E-mail or PM me if you have one of the following commemorative Glocks you'd like to sell: FBI 100yr, Bell Helo, FOP Lodge1, Kiowa Warrior, SCI, and any new/unknown-to-me commemoratives.

  8. #48

    date of the C.E. Harris article on cbs for military rifles

    Exile,

    I have a copy of it dated and attributed to the Shotgun News, Vol 52, issue 21, 1998... third issue of July, 20 July 1998, Pg. 12-13. Ed Harris is very much alive, in fact I think he has a web site called "the frugal rifleman.com".

    Bob

  9. #49
    Boolit Mold THOR5624's Avatar
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    I just got the C312-155-2R 7.62x39mm Russian (312 Diameter) for my cast loads for my mosin. Anyone know a good starting load for shooting paper at 50 and 100 yds? I have H varget, H4895, and H4350. Thanks for your help.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master res45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Maerdian View Post
    Exile,

    I have a copy of it dated and attributed to the Shotgun News, Vol 52, issue 21, 1998... third issue of July, 20 July 1998, Pg. 12-13. Ed Harris is very much alive, in fact I think he has a web site called "the frugal rifleman.com".

    Bob

    Mr. Harris is quiet alive,I've conversed with him by PM on several occasions over the past year about different subjects on cast bullet load in various rifles I own and used his suggestion to get some excellent results.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master
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    Ed Harris strikes again!

    16 grains of Vit N110 in a 308 Garand with a 160 grain bullet shoots beautifully.

    16.5 grains opens the group up unacceptably.

  12. #52
    Boolit Buddy
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    I don't know the date of the following message, "I'm a big fan of light .30 cal boolits, especially Lee Soupcans, but a long range boolit they will never be. And though I have used them to take deer, they are nowhere near the best choice, rather a great small game boolit. "

    I have killed 2 deer with 80-90 gr cast bullets, no tracking needed, in a 250 Sav, 2775 MV (9" low at 300 yds, shot a few targets at 600 yds just for funs) and don't think bullet weight is the factor even for a 120 gr 30 cal bullet if it is placed properly. The 30 Carbine would not be my choice but would work well for a younger and smaller hunter. 1900 MV if shot through the lungs ought to work if tracked for 100+/- yds. I killed 1 deer with a Marlin 336 30-30 and 170 gr CB at 1900 MV, no doubt a standard hunting load and it ran 75 yds.

    I don't look at energy, only for momentum, the force that pushes a bullet into a target or game, same as an arrow's momentum allows the arrow to exit a deer. I don't hunt much but I might consider a 120 gr CB in a 30-30 at whatever speed I could get out of it.

    I fully heat treat and quench my bullets from 450F and hunting bullets are nose annealed for a partion effect, only 3 deer so far and all bullets worked as advertised and none tumbled, exited and one was through 36" from left shoulder through the right ham, the 80-90 gr 250 Sav load.

  13. #53
    Boolit Mold MOSIN NAGANT's Avatar
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    great information! Thanks...

  14. #54
    Boolit Master bullbarrel033's Avatar
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    Re read the Article

    Thanks again Robertbank!
    I too re read the article for interests sake, and i have discovered my bullet goes into the end of my barrel upto the driving bands of my .308 Mauser! The bullet is an RCBS 30-180FP (#82014) I have also got the Lee soupcan, but have just purchased the Lee 312-155SP (#90385). I have not yet cast with this bullet, but cant wait to see how far it goes into the end of my barrel. I am hoping this bullet will be good for 300m target shooting, sized down to .310. I find it interesting about the lower velocities listed for the 600yd deer/target load below 1800fps. My Lyman 4th ed. list velocities upto 2300fps. Either way i am hoping for about 2000fps but where ever the accuracy is, thats where i want it! Great article/tips!
    BB03
    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN HIT THE CENTRE OF THE TARGET IS WITH A CENTREFIRE!!!

  15. #55
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    My M1917 "American Enfield" sporter( no i did not do it!!!) shoots 5 shot 1/2 at 50 yrds with Weaver 2.5 60 b scope with Lee 160 g TL GC with 13 g unique. First load tried (sized .311) Why is your first load your best? We try to always better it. Spend alot of money looking for the "Holy Grail" LOL

  16. #56
    Boolit Master bullbarrel033's Avatar
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    Lee C312-155SP

    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter6br View Post
    My M1917 "American Enfield" sporter( no i did not do it!!!) shoots 5 shot 1/2 at 50 yrds with Weaver 2.5 60 b scope with Lee 160 g TL GC with 13 g unique. First load tried (sized .311) Why is your first load your best? We try to always better it. Spend alot of money looking for the "Holy Grail" LOL
    I shot my Lee C312-155SP at 50m, and the best group i shot was 1.5inch. It was with open sights tho. I am considering putting a lyman peep sight on my Mauser 98, but just gotta accept the fact that i have to drill and tap 2 small holes in the side of the action! I think the peep sight will shrink the group considerably! Either way with some more load development i think this bullet is a winner. It only goes into the muzzle about 30% of the length of the bullet. The nose of it measures .309 and my barrel measures .300/.309 so it should shoot very well!
    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN HIT THE CENTRE OF THE TARGET IS WITH A CENTREFIRE!!!

  17. #57
    Boolit Man
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    I'm bringing this thread back to life because I want to work up a hunting load for my 1912 Chilean Mauser that has a Springfield 03A1 2 groove barrel chambered to .308 Does anyone have experience loading a 7.62x51 case for an old military rifle either cast or jacketed specifically for hunting? Thanks!
    Last edited by Worn_Holster; 02-04-2012 at 01:27 PM.

  18. #58
    Boolit Buddy
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    308 Hunting Loads

    Quote Originally Posted by Worn_Holster View Post
    I'm bringing this thread back to life because I want to work up a hunting load for my 1912 Chilean Mauser that has a Springfield 03 barrel chambered to .308 Does anyone have experience loading a 7.62x51 case for an old military rifle either cast or jacketed specifically for hunting? Thanks!
    Worn Holster,
    My 308 loads are not nearly as accurate as my '03 Sporter with 2-groove barrel. I made up the rifle with an very fouled FN action, military surplus bbl (apparently for the Israelis in the 50's, were stepped), total cost was $105 ($35 each, action, bbl and stock) without scope. It is light weight and I like it. It shoots very well with Sierra 150 gr HP but I am a CB nut.

    I use several cast bullets, two I prefer are the RCBS 30-165 Sil and an old Ideal 308329 spire point, both fitting well. These were cast of 1:1 ratio WW and soft sheet lead of about 9 BHN and then heat treated to 450F for 45 minutes, quenched and aged 30+ hours for about 28 BHN. I annealed the noses on a few for hunting and marked them with a Magic Marker and shot them mixed together on paper. They were lubed in a 0.310" die and very little sizing occurred but the Hornady GCs were sized 0.0005" greater. Most lubes are OK, a few not good.

    The 308329 with 35.5 gr 4895-S and Rem 9 1/2 primer gave 2265 fps and 3 shots into 0.75" and 1.8" both at 50 yds and another 3 shot groups into 2.75" and a large group of 7.5" both at 100 yds, few other groups. I didn't shoot at 200 or 300 yds considering the load to be slightly better than a 30-30 load and much less accurate.

    The 165-Sil with 36 gr 4895-S, no velocity, 3 shots at 50 yds was both 1.75" and 0.5" and at 100 yds was 3.5" and 4.0" about good for a short range load.

    I tried 46.5 AA3100, full casefull, with the 165-S, 2 shots at 50 yds of 1" and 1" and 3 in 1" with MV at 2146 fps. I didn't folow up with longer ranges but this slower powder showed promise.

    The others are the Lee 150 FN, Lyman 31141 and a few others. Use what fits best in a military chamber throat.

    An experimental load worked well, would hunt with it, and that was a non-heat treated bullet, fillered load with the 165 Sil, 28 gr 4320 and 1.6 cc of granulated Cream of Wheat, no air space (I now use cornmeal), 1981 fps avg.

    R Groups and POI
    50 2 into 2.25" +1," 4 into 1.25" +3.5
    100 2 in 2" zero
    150 3 in 3" -3.5" 2 in 1.2" -8"
    200 yds 3 in 2.0" -10," 2 in 1.25" -7"


    Use the data for a guide. I didn't pursue heavier loads of 4895-S as the recoil was getting unpleasant for the hard butt plate. My '03 loads were as much as 2850 fps and consistent to 300 yds.

    I don't recommend fillered loads to anyone. They have had their place in target rifles for 130 years in straight walled cases, are somewhat pressure sensitive in BN cases and will over pressure without warning, with experienced broken parts. The fillers allow a soft bullet to shoot without fouling the bore that mushrooms on impact.
    Bill
    Last edited by billw; 02-03-2012 at 02:08 AM. Reason: Down range data was scrambled

  19. #59
    Boolit Man motorcycle_dan's Avatar
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    That great information. I'm relatively new to rifle bullet casting. I suffer the same, "room in the safe" syndrom. I must fill all the slots, which leads to a new safe and the cycle starts again. Have an attraction for old military rifles and think they should be cast bullet exclusive. Shoot .303brit, 308win, 30-06, 7.7 Jap, 8mm mauser. Also just picked up a 6.5x55 swede. NICE. What little cast bullet loading I have done I used Greed Dot powder. I suspect I should just go get a keg of 2400 and leave it at that. Is there a source of other cast bullet data, I have the lyman cast bullet handbook but not the NRA cast bullet reference. Is this available online? Thanks for the great information
    Last edited by motorcycle_dan; 04-24-2012 at 03:57 PM. Reason: punctuation
    Dan, A fast bullseye shooter or slow action pistol shooter.

  20. #60
    Boolit Buddy
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    military rifle loads

    Quote Originally Posted by motorcycle_dan View Post
    That great information. I'm relatively new to rifle bullet casting. I suffer the same, "room in the safe" syndrom. I must fill all the slots, which leads to a new safe and the cycle starts again. Have an attraction for old military rifles and think they should be cast bullet exclusive. Shoot .303brit, 308win, 30-06, 7.7 Jap, 8mm mauser. Also just picked up a 6.5x55 swede. NICE. What little cast bullet loading I have done I used Greed Dot powder. I suspect I should just go get a keg of 2400 and leave it at that. Is there a source of other cast bullet data, I have the lyman cast bullet handbook but not the NRA cast bullet reference. Is this available online? Thanks for the great information
    Dan, I have used a lot of different powders and got away from Hercules/Alliant flake ones--too much fouling, went to WW231 and now AA#2 (two) for clean burning powder in light to medium target loads. AA does not recommend using it in rifles and using fast powders means you must eyeball verify with a strong light or marked dowel in the cases. 2400 is OK but will not burn completely, best used in high pressure loads, still don't like it in 357 or 44 loads in handguns.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check