Wider lube grooves needed....?

[RugerBob]

Hey guys, I am planning on starting to shoot blackpowder in my 45s. I have 2 vaqueros and now a uberti '73 I got just cuz I thought it easier to clean. Resting the 92 for a spell. Anyway, is there a good mold that has a wider lube groove for bp lube? Or is the 2 groove that the lee 255gr offers suitable? That is the current one I have on hand.
I will be using these loads/boolits for cowboy action shooting, just cuz I like the smoke and smell. If the lee mold I have at 255gr is not gonna pan out as grooves to small, who has a mold that may be what I need? Lyman would be nice as I already have single and 4 cav handles for that. And whats a good lube, as I am here? For use in a Lyman lube sizer. Or should I just buy 1000 already made too make sure its something I want to do. Who sells them?

Thanks all, Bob

[Chicken Thief]

Are you going to shoot from the mag?

If single shot then you can simply dip the boolit tip in Crisco before shooting.
If mag fed then the best way might be a 1/16" lubed feltwad under the boolit.

[GrayFox]

I think the Lee lube grooves are too shallow to hold enough BP lube, especially in a rifle barrel. I have used Lyman Black Powder Gold as I found that SPG didn't hold up here in GA in the summer time when I used to shoot SASS matches. Shooting BP my bullet was the 250 RNFP from the RCBS 45-250-FN mold, which when crimped over the front band produces a profile very similar to the original .45 Colt round. This gives you two fairly deep lube grooves to hold plenty of lube even for a rifle. Hope this helps, and good luck with your BP efforts.

[Don McDowell]

With a good lube and running full case loads that bullet just might carry enough lube.
I have shot alot of the Remington 255 bulk bullets with nothing more than the bit of lube that the "hollow' base would hold, with 37 grs of Goex 3f and a .030 fiber wad.
Might want to get some KIK 3f and Bullshop Nasa , or Sagebrush Alox lube.

[Dragoon 45]

The Lyman 454190 works great for me. I have the two cavity mold. I cast them out of whatever alloy I have, lube with SPG, and size them at .454. Load 37grns of Goex 3Fg over a .030 fiber wad. Shoot two Ruger stainless Vaqueros and a Marlin 1894 CB. Never had a pistol or my rifle foul out in a SASS match. Always have a good lube star on the muzzles. It gets pretty hot here in Oklahoma in the summer. The stainless Vaqueros are a breeze to clean and the Marlin is not that bad either.

Hey guys, I am planning on starting to shoot blackpowder in my 45s. I have 2 vaqueros and now a uberti '73 I got just cuz I thought it easier to clean. Resting the 92 for a spell. Anyway, is there a good mold that has a wider lube groove for bp lube? Or is the 2 groove that the lee 255gr offers suitable? That is the current one I have on hand.
I will be using these loads/boolits for cowboy action shooting, just cuz I like the smoke and smell. If the lee mold I have at 255gr is not gonna pan out as grooves to small, who has a mold that may be what I need? Lyman would be nice as I already have single and 4 cav handles for that. And whats a good lube, as I am here? For use in a Lyman lube sizer. Or should I just buy 1000 already made too make sure its something I want to do. Who sells them?

Thanks all, Bob

[Springfield]

This bullet has lots of lube for BP shooting. The bullets are available from www.whyteleatherworks.com and so are the moulds from www.biglube.com

[NickSS]

I also have used the lyman 454190 RF bullet for BP in a 45 colt. It is the original bullet that lyman developed way back for black powder and it works very well for me. I have shot it in a couple of colt clones from Uberti and a Rossi 92 Puma. Never had any trouble in a match with them. By the way 35 gr of FFG with that bullet makes for a potent load. I killed a wild bore with one shot from my carbine and the bullet went through it forehead through the brain down the neck and came out the side of the body behind the last rib on the right side. The bore piled right up and skidded a couple feet. Range was 25 yards and it was charging right at me.

[Cannoneer]

When it comes to using Black Powder in my SAA Clones, I prefer the bullets from http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/. They hold a slew of BP compatable lube and I've fired fifty rounds consecutively before I started having cylinder binding problems. Lyman's 452664 .45 RNFP also has a wide grease groove but it's not as efficient as the one from Whyte's Leather Works. Both weigh in around 250 grains and are very accurate out of my pistols.

I use a .44WCF as my SASS rifle and use the MavDuchman designed 200 grain .44 big lube slug.

[McLintock]

Those bullets that aren't the big lube design, like Springfield's picture, will lube pistol barrels and maybe a 20" carbine barrel, but if your '73 has the 24" tube, you need the big lube bullet, the others just don't carry enough lube for the extra 4"'s. You can use a lube cookie with the smaller lube groove bullets, but that's a lot of extra effort when you can just get the right bullet and not worry about it.
Mclintock

[RugerBob]

Thanks all for the replies. Looks like time for a new set of molds then. My '73 has the 24" barrel. Another avenue to turn since I have started casting. : ).

[John Boy]

Bob, you have to make a decision: with the rifle, CAS only or longer distance shooting also. If both, the big lube bullets are not what you want. If was designed to hold close to 4grs of lube but the balance point is wrong and the metplat is too wide to shoot past the normal CAS target distances.

How do I know? Because I shot them bullets for 8 years. The bullet that will not cause lube starvation and provide very good groups past CAS distances is the 454190, the original Colt bullet

[Lead pot]

You guys would be surprised just how little lube gets used when a bullet travels down the barrel. Even using a lube wad made from the harder commercial lube sticks you use in a lube sizer for PP bullets.
It's not so much the amount of lube but how hard the lube is. Black powder requires a softer lube then smokeless powder to be effective.
Just shoot a bullet through a long tube sometimes and weigh and measure the diameter of the lube rings left behind in that tube.

[Springfield]

John Boy is right, All bullets don't work for ALL applications. But then I think we all already know that. I shoot mostly SASS/CAS type shooting with real BP, so I prefer the Big Lube designs for most things. But sometimes I go off on a tangent and shoot other things. For example I like to shoot Wild Bunch, which is basically CAS shooting but with 45 autos and pump shotguns, kinda like in the movie "The Wild Bunch". But being the BP shooter that I am I shoot my 45 auto with BP. I use the 454190 bullet John Boy mentions mostly because it has a smaller nose to feed better and it is heavier to make up for the small volume of BP I can fit in the case. Works great in my stock 1916 45 Colt. I didn't have to change the springs or alter the magazine or anything. I like to go with whatever works well without a lot of extra effort. I don't shoot much long range, over 200 yards, so I am no expert there. If I did I would probably use some pointier bullets with smaller lube grooves like most of the good shooters use and blow tube or wipe the bore like they do. So Ruger Bob, if you would like a few Big Lubes and some 454190's to try side by side I have moulds for both. No need to commit to 1000 either.

[Don McDowell]

Always wonder how we managed to shoot those cartridges with blackpowder in all manner of guns for 130 someodd years before the world was graced with the Big lube bullets...

[SharpsShooter]

Always wonder how we managed to shoot those cartridges with blackpowder in all manner of guns for 130 someodd years before the world was graced with the Big lube bullets...

Tis a miracle Don. I use a 260gr Keith SWC with the crimp groove filled also for my 73 rifle and Ruger BH. The rifle is 24" barreled and I can go over 50 or thereabouts with no issues using NASA,.

SS

[Don McDowell]

I never had any trouble with all manner of bullets using Sagebrush alox.
Even did a test with chrono and accuracy data on another site, but one of the BigLube zombies came on got stupid and another BigLube zombie that was a moderator thru most of the thread out, including all the pertinent data and then proceed to give me a vacation from that site.
Then a little later I was curious about a Biglube bullet that was bragged up to be something it couldn't be no matter how hard I tried, and got in a big shoot out with them Ahx-- zombies again
Biglube and it's zombies can kiss my lilly white a----. Poor buggers wouldn't know a good bullet if it bit there empty brainpans intwo....

[otterdriver]

Where can a fellow find a good source for the Sagebrush Alox lube?

[Don McDowell]

http://www.sageoutfitters.com/catalo...24/7456325.htm

[otterdriver]

Thank you Don,
Certainly affordable too, for us currently financially challenged... Chris

[John Boy]

Then a little later I was curious about a Biglube bullet that was bragged up to be something it couldn't be no matter how hard I tried

Don, do I remember that episode so well ... it was the 500gr MK III. I spent 3 days of range time, loading every combination I could think of to get it to shoot - taking pictures of the targets - posting them, etc and the groups were horrible. Then I sent you a tray of them for a 2nd opinion as to their accuracy. You couldn't get it to group either.

Then the purveyor of the bullet mold shot a 10 shot group that Doc Lay and Brian Chilson would drool for ... on a Styrofoam box that floated away across the lake after he took a picture that looked like eraser circles stamped on a piece of paper - yea sure!

I do have to admit though ... my first BPCR reload with a Buffalo Classic was the Original 500gr big lube designed incorrectly that would only allow 52gr of BP to be charged. So I loaded with Triple Seven and shot a 600yd 5 shot group that was 7"x 2 1/4" with 3 holes that could be covered by a silver dollar. Had 2 witnesses to prove it. Was never able to repeat that group or even get close though - so I sold that mold too along with the others

PS: For the good of the order: Don't use the PRS bullets if you try to shoot them in any of the Lightning rifles - they won't chamber. The metplat is too large and won't fit between the carrier side arms