N00b trying to dial in a 9mm load...

[whammo7]

and thanks to y'alls suggestions, I'm getting much closer!

To recap, I'm shooting a ruger SR9C and a Springfield XD9.

I'm now using a Lee TL .356 125 grain 2 chamber semi wadcutter mould. My bullets are looking very nice and sharp. On a scale they weigh from 125-130 grns. Lead is from one of the vendors here, it comes in round hockey pucks in a wooden box, sorry I can't remember the man's name. I'm running straight lead ingots, best guess is it's wheelweights.

Both guns slug to .355

My current load is 4.0 grains of bullseye, OAL 1.15, sized to .356. My leading is pretty minimal on the sr9c. I'm just getting some lead in the grooves on the sides of them. It's pretty hard to see, and scrubbing with a worn out brass brush and some elbow grease cleans them up in 10 or 15 minutes or so.

Complaints? The round is a bit more snappy than I'd like in the sr9c. I'd also like no leading at all, but honestly I can live with what I have.

I shot 50 rounds with a Lee non TL 120 grain design and alox lube sized .356 and
got leading that took an hour of scrubbing to remove.

I shot 50 rounds of the above tumblelube 125 grain and alox sized .356 and really it only took 10 or 15 minutes of scrubbing to get it pristine, and I maybe didn't even need to do that much.

At y'alls suggestion, I'm waiting for a lee sizer to .357 and .358 to arrive. I can't wait to see what that does.

My other problem is my Springfield XD9 is jamming. It's a brand new gun, not even 10 rounds through it, and all were my boolits. It choked on a 1.12 and 1.15 OAL round. I managed to clear the chamber by holding the slide with my good hand and hitting the pistol grip 1911 style safety with the web of my thumb and forefinger on my left. After a few shots and a few jams I cleared it and there was powder all over and a bullet jammed in the barrel so I called it a day. I should've saved the case to see if the primer had been struck or not. I don't think it had been, so whatever that's worth.

Anway, if y'alll have any suggestions I'm all ears! I never could have made it this far without you!

After reading all the 9mm horror stories I didn't even half expect to get this bullseye powder to not lead up the barrel. I've got probably 7 pounds of it left though, so I'm glad to at least get it working to a seemingly functional configuration, at least for one pistol.

The boolits aren't tumbling, I'm getting nice clean holes in the targets.

First chance I get I'm going to try out some blue dot, however, as I'm convinced it'll work better.

Thanks again for your generous help!

[ku4hx]

If it were me, I'd tackle one problem at a time and start with that one I consider most serious: "jamming". Once one problem is solved, move to the next

How does it shoot with factory rounds? Are there any factory or home brew rounds it chambers reliably? Of course I'm just guessing but it sounds to me like you don't have "jamming" per se rather your round is getting seriously stuck in the chamber. That can have a variety of causes but first thing I'd do is pull the barrel, drop several of your rounds into the chamber, press each in lightly and note if any get stuck. In case any do, have a length of 1/4" dowel to nudge it out with.

If your rounds do not drop freely fully into a clean chamber with a satisfying "ka-plunk" and then fall freely out, they aren't properly dimensioned. First I'd suspect neck diameter may be too great. Judicious taper crimping ( suggestion: in a separate station) can fix that; attempt to match factory neck diameter. Even with .358" boolits, all my rounds drop both freely into and drop freely out of all my 9mm chambers. But then I stick to 124 grain RN and TC. I've just never had much luck with the SWC profile in 9mm. Who knows, like me you may have to ditch the SWCs and go to a different boolit shape. Maybe not. But if your chosen boolit is getting stuck in the chamber so badly the case is being pulled off of it I'd consider this pellet is not the best choice for you. I assume you're full length resizing your cases since neck tension sounds to be OK. If you can get a round with this boolit to pass the "ka-plunk" test then likely it'll work for you.

I've loaded and shot tens of thousands of 9mm rounds over the last 40+ years and the vast majority have been my castings. Early on I decided to standardize on a single alloy: Lyman #2. About ten years ago I went to "hard ball" (92% lead, 2% tin, 6% antimony) because tin was getting so expensive. Standardizing on a single alloy works for me in that it eliminates certain variables. And, I like a hard bullet for a variety of reasons.

It's been so long since I had mentionable leading I've forgotten the particulars of what all I did. But I do remember the fix was the proper combination of alloy, lube, boolit size and etc. There are a multitude of threads here about elimination of leading and I'd suggest searching and reading them all. After that it's just trial and error.

Having cut my reloading teeth on .357 and .44 Magnum I can't say I find any 9mm round to be "snappy". But that's just me. But to attempt a cure for that will involve testing various combinations of boolit weight, powder brand/type and powder charge. But then, that's where the fun is ... experimentation. But you may be surprised to find what works for you may not work for others. In fact what works for you may not even be a generally accepted load. Blue Dot is a great powder and works well for me in certain guns and loadings. But as to being "better" than some other powder I don't know. What's better for you may be lousy for me. There again, test and retest and find out what works for you. There are hundreds of good powders with Bullseye and Blue Dot being just two of them. And surprisingly enough, I know people who strongly dislike one or the other. Go figure.

[casterofboolits]

Sounds like the chamber of the XD9 may be a bit shorter or have less leade than the SR9c and needs a shorter COL. As suggested, make up a dummy round with a shorter COL and do the "PLUNK" test. The only time I ever had a boolit stick in the barrel is when I had the COL too long. Once that is solved, then you can play with powder and boolit size

My standard 9mm boolit is an H&G #275 09-125-SWCBB sized 357 over a medium load of BlueDot. This load gives minimal to no leading in my BHP and Tanfoglio pistols.

Accurate #7 also works well.

[HeavyMetal]

Kinda confused as to which Lee boolit your using as I see no swc TL boolit on my mold chart.

I do see a RNL and a TC boolit and I suspect your using the TC design, please confirm. This would be number 90238 or 90402 depending on the cavities of the mold.

The TC TL design is quite long and will require seating very deeply into the case to feed correctly.

This will, of course, increase pressure making your load a bit snappy!

Now I have a 9mm dummy round sitting here on my desk, It uses the standard Lee 125 grain RNL boolit mold number 90457, the 6 cavity mold, and is seated to 1.120 exactly!

This round feeds in just about every 9mm I have put it in. I use Carnuba Red and can push this to 1400 FPS and not get leading.

I agree with pulling your barrel and trying to find the sweet spot for cartridge length in you XD9.

Do not be surprised if you find you need two seperate batchs of ammo for each pistol!

I am also aware of the attraction for tumble lube having had a brief time in my life when I tried to make it work to my satisfaction.

It never happened!

I will suggest you get some Carnuba Red and pan lube and size a batch and try them in your pistols.

[Iron Mike Golf]

Doesn't the XD series have an issue with reliably feeding SWC designs? Seem I read where the base of expended cartridge rides along the nose of the next rounds and it can catch on a SWC shoulder... OK, yeah on XDTalk forum. A poster claimed Springfield Armory said the XD can't use SWC designs. You might have trouble with a TC design, too. You want to avoid a shoulder on the nose.

Look for round nose or flattened round nose mold.

[Larry Gibson]

I regularly use 4 gr of Bullseye with 115 -124 gr cast bullets. Yours are a bit heavier and if too "snappy" then reduce the charge to 3.5 gr or 3.7 gr Bullseye. Also make sure there is a good coat of LLA in the TL grooves and a sizing of .357 would probably be better.

In the XD9 t sounds like (?) the round is feeding but not chambering all the way? If that is the case take the barrel out of the pistol and use it as a case gauge. Drop an empty, sized case into the cahmber and note where the case head is in relation the the end of the barrel hood. Adjust the loaded OAL of the cartridge so the the loaded round fits into the chamber to the same point as the empty, sized case.

If the loaded round will not go into the chamber then there are other issues to address.

If the loaded rounds chamber freely in the barrel but still don't chamber when fed from the magazine then there is a feeding issue with that bullet. If this is the case then I suggest a change of bullet nose profile also. The Lee 356-120-TC is an excellent design that has fed in every 9mm handgun and subgun I've tried it in.

Let us know what you find out.

Larry Gibson

[whammo7]

(sigh) I knew I'd get the description of the mold wrong! OK here's the one I'm using:
LEE MOULD TL356-124-TC DBL CAVITY


I actually have the 356-120-TC as well. It leads the barrel a ton (with tumble lube that is)even sized to .356 so I thought I'd try to get the TL to work as it leads so much less.

Yup, a quick look at the two different boolits and the TL design is 1/8 or more longer than the other, so it makes sense to me that heavy metal is right that must be seating deeper and causing the snappiness!

For now I'm going to reduce the powder load and try .357 since I got my sizers in today and see how that works with the SR9. I've got to run and cast some more boolits before it gets dark! Then I'll get to working on doing those bullet drops in the XD9 barrel and see what happens.

thanks very much gentlemen, I will report back asap!

Maybe I'll have to suck it up and get a lubrisizer, or try pan lubing to see if I can get that non TL design to work.

[mpmarty]

XD pistols have a known problem feeding any round that has an exposed shoulder such as a semi wad cutter. DAMHIK

[HeavyMetal]

I thought that was the boolit you described!

Because of the sharp edge this design will not work in the XD but you can keep trying.

I would move to the TC boolit with the "real" lube groove and try my hand at pan lubing!

It's not hard and it gives you the chance try several different lubes in small batches something that will help you find a boolit lube combo that will work for you!

Some other tips for loading the 9mm:

do not use mixed case's. Case capacity can vary by 20% in mixed case head samples.

Trim you cases to a specific length! Ken Water's found that in a box of factory loads case length varied over .012 of an inch in a single box of 50 rounds!

If you use a taper crimp die, do so in a seprate crimping mode and be very careful not to over crimp! Taper crimp is the hardest to adjust and is most often over done because most "newbie's" to the 9mm think you got to see a crimp with the naked eye for it to be correct!

If your using one of Lee's Factory Crimp dies take it out of the press and use it as a paper weight! This die has caused more trouble than it could ever possiblely be worth!

Aviod magnum or small rifle primers with the 9mm case! Std Federal small pistol, if you can find them, are best!

I like Bluedot in my 9mm loads but it needs to be a pretty stiff load to shoot well. Green dot is OK. WW superlite has worked well in "middle" velocity target type loads.

That should help you out a little bit!

One other thing XD's are supposed to be finicky as all get out as to boolit shape! supposed to be a design thing with round sliding on top of each other during the feeding cycle.

I'd stick with an RNL design to start with.

[gefiltephish]

In my XD the Lee 120TC feeds without fail. Unfortunately it also leads the barrel like crazy, and that's lubed via Lyman 450. Even following conventional lubing with tumble lubing doesn't help. However that has been the most accurate bullet for my gun. Using the chamber drop test, my oal is 1.060.

After a year of wasted time and effort with various tumble lubes, alloy hardness etc, I gave up and got the 450 which works well for the 45's and the Mihec 359-124hp (no leading at all but not nearly as accurate as the Lee). The Lee still leads but not as bad as when tumble lubed.

Over the weekend I ordered a Lee TC clone with a couple of changes, from Accurate Molds (#35-125C). It's a bit heavier, has a much more substantial lube groove and a plain base rather than the Lee's bevel base (slight as it is). It's only about .010" longer.

Food for thought: I bought my XD as new old stock. A few days ago I emailed my s/n to Springfield and asked what the barrel twist was. The reply was 1:10. I believe later versions have 1:16, as are virtually all after-market barrels. I wonder if the fast twist has anything to do with leading of the Lee bullet and inaccuracy of the Mihec bullet. Although recently tried 5.9gr of Blue Dot has brought the Mihec bullet in line with the Lee accuracy (maybe better), but it seems like it's a rather light charge. If your XD is an earlier one you may have the 1:10 twist as well.

[whammo7]

I'll be darned thanks guys! I never would have guessed that the XD had a specific issue with feeding! Thank you Heavy Metal(and others)! Round sliding on top of each other during feeding sounds about right to me.

well I sized 50 TL TC boolits to .357 tonight and shot them with 4 grains of bullseye in the Ruger SR9C and I couldn't see any leading, nor could a couple range guys I had take a look at it! There *might* be some streaking in the grooves, but it could just be lube or a trick of the light, I need to clean the barrel to be sure.

I'm pretty happy with the results for the Ruger. I have a .358 die, so I guess I'll try 50 boolits sized that way and see what happens since I have it.

The .357 seemed accurate enough to me. I'm no great shot and not very experienced or anything, but when I shot well the bullets seemed to go where I wanted

OK, I'll do more work on the XD tonight and report back. I was really hoping that I could use one boolit for all my 9mms, and that the TL design was it!

I don't know where to find the ingredients to pan lube locally, so it may take a few days to get those. in the meantime, I'll size the RN to .358 with LLA and see what happens with that.

All the advice is much appreciated!!!!!

[whammo7]

Just a little update-I cleaned the ruger last night and got way more lead out of it than I would have guessed. I cleaned it up good enough and called it a night.

I'm going to size some at .358 tonight and go to the range and see what happens. Updates soon!

Thanks as always

[whammo7]

OK I tried some of the non-TL TC type boolits at the range sized to .358. No joy, tons of lead in the barrel. Those are now retired until I begin pan lubing.

I tried the drop test in the XD barrel. Nojoy. It doesn't like the crimp, the cartridge got stuck in there but good!

When I tried some factory HP ammo, it chambered and came out easily.

Now I'm putting some foaming barrel cleaning stuff in the Ruger and looking to read more in this thread about crimping. That seems like a great place to start!

Thanks as always

[HeavyMetal]

Here's where I'd go from we're I you.

Size a case but no powder, no primer. expand case as usual and seat a Non TL TC boolit do not crimp!
Pick an OAL to start with, I'll suggest 1.120 as a starting point, and let the round move smoothly into the chamber of the pulled barrel. Do not assist it's entrance in any way! That means no pushing or other artifiacial means to get the boolit case head flush with the hood of the chamber.

Use a factory round that feeds fine as a guideline for where the case head rests when it is correctly seated in the chamber.

Now seat the boolit in the unprimed case about .020 at a time until the case head depth matchs the factory round.

Now you'll have the correct OAL for the boolit you wish to load with.

Now you need a small One inch deep pan about 6 to 10 inches around. I have found Christmas cookie tin lids to be very useful in pan lubing.

Find an old coffee can ( a metal one!) and fill it half full of water and set it on the stove and
heat it up. while it's getting hot, but before you get any real heat from the water stand a dozen or so boolits on thier base in this pan and cut up the lub of choice in small chunks and scatter them around the tin full of boolits.

Set your cookie tin lid, boolits and lube on top of the coffee can and let them heat up and melt the lube.

What you want is a nice pool of lube in the lid with enough lube to cover the lube groove of the boolit you've choosen!

Once the lube has melted and you've added enought lube to get the depth you need to fill the lube groove, and maybe just a touch higher, turn off the stove and let the whole thing cool off for several hours to over night.

Once cold the entire "cake" of lube and boolits may come out of the lid and into your hand.

If it does simply push the lubed boolits out of the lube cake as gently as possible dropping none of them!

You now have lubed boolits you can size any way you want and you will have created holes in the lube "cake" you can stick the next batch of boolits into so you can melt the lub and lube the nect batch!

Size as needed after they are lubed and you should be good to go!

[whammo7]

Thank you very much Heavy Metal!

I did the drop test, thanks to you all, and it appears that at 1.08 with the TL TC boolits, the TC would only drop in at .973 and the (excuse me for my mis-terminology) shoulder? of the bullet(the ridge at the end of the cone) is below the end of the brass, and I just can't imagine that could be shootable.

I tried multiple times with each style boolit, and the results were consistant .

I keep a notebook and I've loaded boolits at 1.08 in the Ruger before, but the non TL design. I think they'll shoot fine.

OK so I'm going to the range, will report back!

Oh! and I ordered and TL356-124-2R DBL CAVITY

we'll see how it goes!

[Blackwater]

Whammo, are you crimping and seating in a single operation? Heavy Metal noted that this can cause problems. It's usually best with autopistol calibers to crimp as a separate 4th step in loading. Case length should also be checked by the drop test of an empty sized hull into the barrel. If that fits and falls in freely, then your loaded rounds should do the same UNLESS something in your loading technique is creating interference for it, like an oversize bullet bulging the case out too far to fit a tight chamber, or seating and crimping in a single step causing a sliver of lead to curl up at the case mouth from over crimping, as noted above.

FWIW, the only thing left after ensuring your loads fit the chamber freely and are headspacing properly (not sinking in too deep into the chamber), is to work on your OAL to see what length your pistol needs for a given bullet to feed well. I have no experience with the XD, but I have with a number of others, and unless the bullet has an unusually broad meplat, such as the LBT designs, or the nose is just too long, there's usually an OAL that will allow it to feed in most guns. Maybe not all, but most. It's just a matter of working these things out to get the gun/load combo to purr for you. What seems mystifying and inexplicable at first will soon become "old hat" to you. It all makes sense, once you learn the principles involved, like the simple principle that if your sized brass fits your chamber freely, your loaded rounds should, too.

[whammo7]

thank you blackwater!

yes, let me tell you,all this seemed completely mysterious even after reading tons of threads. I figured Id either sink or swim and just gave it a shot!

I did the test with an empty case and a sized boolit load, and it

hwas very interesting to see the difference it made! The longer ones were resistant to coming out and 1.08 oal dropped right out like a factory round.

so i loaded up 60 rounds and fired them earlier. The XD fed the bullets perfectly! A pleasant surprise. The downside was heavy barrel leading that affected accuracy . My Ruger also got a ton of lead, which I attribute to going with a .358 size. Im going to go back to .357 and the same oal and see how that works. I know the ruger like that size at least, and ive got a hunch the XD will like it too, with its .355 barrel dia.

oh! crimping! Yes, I use a 3 die set. I adjusted the seating/crimping die to hopefully not do anything at all. I set it slightly above the case, iirc.

thanks again for everything! im so glad y'all taught me the barrell test, without that I never would have figured out the right length!

[MtGun44]

You may find this useful.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=121737

Bill

[whammo7]

Thank you MTGun! I've read that many times but I'm going to do it again, as I'm certain I'll understand it better now that I've done some more R&D on these!

I wanted to do some shooting as I've been limiting myself to just 20 rounds or so lately to get my 9mm boolit up to speed.

So I knew that the .357 worked OK in the Ruger and the TC was feeding in the XD at 1.08 OAL, so I shot 150 rounds between them.

The ruger shot as well as I can shoot it, but has more leading in the grooves than I'd like, even after shooting a few FMJs through it. Same with the XD, although my accuracy was horrible. I blame that to it being a new gun I haven't learned to shoot yet

I've been looking at other recipes for this Bullseye that I have 7 pounds left of LOL and they're using a max load of around 4.7 grains, and I've been using only 4.

I need to read more on this site, but I think I can start adding more powder and possibly get less leading. I think I read that here somewhere but maybe I dreamt it

I haven't tried the pan lube or the TL RN Lee mould that should arrive next week. Should be interesting!

Thanks as always and I'll keep plugging away

[MtGun44]

OK, keep trying, keep reading. Glad the thread was helpful. I sat down one day to set
up for a new 9mm and after I had done everything, I realized that my process was successful
because I had learned a lot from loading for years, and a lot more from discussing and reading
here. It occurred to me that just taking the time to write down my normal steps and why
I did each one might be useful synopsys and guide to someone else going through the same
process.

Take care, ask specific questions or for clarification if the topic wasn't covered or wasn't
clear.

Bill