First Accurate Mold

[Rick N Bama]

Rick,

Good to hear from you. Surprised I haven't run into you and your sidekick the last few weeks. Rest assured, I'll have a few of these on hand next time I see you.

David

We've not been able to get back recently. My "Sidekick" is getting used to shooting his Mossberg with some Turkey loads his Dad bought him a couple weeks ago. So far I think he's fired all of 2

Guys my Sidekick is my 11YO Grandson who pleased the crowd that day with his handling of an AK47

Rick

[Suo Gan]

I'm thinking you've never done business with Veral Smith. I can tell you right now, don't bother.

Gear

I have dealt with Veral many times, plan on doing more in the future. What did Veral do to you that you are bringing him up now?

[geargnasher]

Veral didn't do anything to me. But based on what you think of Tom after having zero personal experience with him or his products, I would predict that you and Veral would have some personality conflicts.

I noticed you make no comment to Tom's response above, does the situation make more sense to you now? I have one of his latest moulds and I did a split-second WTH? when I unwrapped the left block and saw the new setscrew hole on the inside, too. But I quickly realized what it was, and I think it's a stellar idea. LOTS of threads for the screw to grab in the soft aluminum.

Gear

[Suo Gan]

[QUOTE=geargnasher;1443878]Veral didn't do anything to me. But based on what you think of Tom after having zero personal experience with him or his products, I would predict that you and Veral would have some personality conflicts.

I noticed you make no comment to Tom's response above, does the situation make more sense to you now? I have one of his latest moulds and I did a split-second WTH? when I unwrapped the left block and saw the new setscrew hole on the inside, too. But I quickly realized what it was, and I think it's a stellar idea. LOTS of threads for the screw to grab in the soft aluminum.

Gear[/QUOTE

Sometimes you need to jump under the bus before your customer and take a hit and look silly so that your customer saves face. I would have expected an apology and a comittment to excellence by asking the man to return the mold. INSTEAD Tom pretty much said the man was stupid or ignorant.

I will keep my money, thanks. Call me one of the 2 1/2% ers...the number may be growing. Great business model!

[onesonek]

Here is the situation. RMK owns one of my 1st generation molds. He likes it.
He recently purchased a new mold, which is my current, 3rd generation. This improved design uses set screws with the sprew plate hardware instead of bottomed out shoulder screws. I use the biggest, longest set screws possible, because I want my customers to be able to put some torque on them.
It appears to me that RMK was taken aback when he encountered one of the new set screw holes.

This what my suspicions were, after I got to remembering some had requested such a set screw.

I simply asked for details so that I could save the time and expense of shipping, and instead just explain the need and use for the new hole.
My response was neither rude nor curt. I did not want to inconvenience him with a request for a pic, since a simple location description would have been adequate.

I seen nothing wrong, with your response. However if someone wants to criticize you for being breif and to the point,,,, I supose there are those that need more attention. For whatever reason, I hate to guess.

When I never heard back from him, and still have not, I assumed that he figured out what the hole was for and was too embarrassed to reply. It has become obvious that this is the case.

My thoughts too. Kind of a shame alos, probabaly an alright guy for the most part. Following through with your simple question, would have had a simple resolution.

A bullet mold is a tool, not a piece of furniture, and utility, durability, strength and function are far greater priorities than appearance.

True!
I make one of a kind custom molds, and I give free replacement or refund if the mold is out of spec, or defective in any other way.

I will never refund or replace just because someone feels it’s not pretty enough.

I don't think you have much in the way of customer service to worry about Tom!
I still contend your character, your service, and the quality of your work is second to none! Or at the very least, as good as the best, of all the other's.

Keep up the good work, and hopefully for years to come!

[oneokie]

This thread is getting close to being locked.

[onesonek]

Put the shoe on the other foot. What if this was happening to you? Just because you guys say jump, does not mean someone else will say how high. Some folks just dig their heels in and say stuff it! RMK does not have to make anything right by any of you. I am sticking up for him because I do not think he is getting a fair shake in this deal at all.

Personally I wouldn't have dropped the ball to begin with. Even had I not liked Tom's reply, I would have answered it. (Which I didn't find "snarky" at all)
And I certainly would not have, gone on an open forum with the issue until all chances of resolution had been attempted.
RMK laid claims without backing them up. Tom backed up far more, with RMK's own email. It was clear,RMK really didn't understand what he seen. Would you have gone on the forum in that regard ? I doubt it! Had he not been quite so obtrusive in his first post, things would have been different I'm sure. Even a pic saying, whats this, I hadn't seen it on my other AM mold?,,,, would have gotten far better results 4-3 pages ago,,,don't you agree?

And for the record, I got more than a few years under the belt, with shoe's on either foot.
It's your prerogative to back him, but more than just I don't feel he gave Tom a fair shake. Fairness is all we/I were looking for from the start.

[white eagle]

I will keep my money, thanks. Call me one of the 2 1/2% ers...the number may be growing. Great business model!

I doubt that very much
you don't need to hold everyones hand business

[MikeS]

I gotta say, why do folks get all upset because somebody sent a quick email asking for more info using only 3 words? By saying "What hole? Where?" rather than saying " Hi I'm sorry that you're not totally happy with your new mold. What hole do you feel is drilled wrong, and where is it?" does it make the questions any less relevant? There's nothing wrong with being clear and concise and using as few words as possible. Now if Tom had said "The mold is fine, that's how it's supposed to be." without knowing more, I would find THAT more disturbing than asking for more info.

And as for comparing Accurate Molds with Lyman is an unfair comparison. Lyman is a company that's been in business for around 100 years. And the machinist that cut the mould isn't the same person answering emails, so the person answering emails has more time to do that, as it's a primary part of their job (I would assume Lyman has a customer service dept) but Tom does most everything at his company, and like any small business owner, time is something I'm sure he is short of, so not taking a whole lot of time to phrase an email in a 'pleasing' manner is to be understood. And now that I've had my question regarding brass moulds answered (although not the answer I was hoping for) I will be ordering a mould once I have the money for it put aside. I would rather have a 3 hole brass mould than a 4 (or 5) hole aluminum one, even tho I've had good results with NOE and NEI aluminum moulds, I still prefer brass!

[onesonek]

Well said Mike! I would hate to guess the number of emails he likely deals with on a daily basis. Being to the point, short and concise, is a non issue in my books.

[turbo1889]

Sometimes you need to jump under the bus before your customer and take a hit and look silly so that your customer saves face. . . .

Been there . . . Done that . . . lost a five digit figure in the process that almost put things belly up and took half a season to recover from . . . never again. . . and I'm doing just fine without a certain class of customer . . . better then ever in fact.

Tom has posted and that should have cleared up the bouncing theories about what happened on his end including those by myself. From his post it is pretty clear in my mind that there wasn't any 2.5% situation going on.

That said there is a time and a place to exercise the "We reserve the right to refuse service to any individual" clause. There is such a thing as a vulture customer in the business world and there are other critters worse still running around. The term coming from "Best Buy" who has a "vulture list" of customers that are no longer allowed to even enter their store. Other companies have similar but that one is fairly well known since the story was a fairly big deal a few years back.

Heck, this forum has those kinds of policies in effect. Ever check the "dead beat" threads? How about being banned from the forum? Wonder if anyone has ever been kicked out of the group buy system; I would almost be willing to bet money at least someone has. Last I checked this forum is doing pretty good and part of the reason is because certain "customers" get weeded out and the forum would suffer if they didn't.

Good Grief, I almost sound like my woman putting up an argumentative post like this but I'm willing to risk it on this point. Not many hills I'm willing to fight for but this is one of the few.

[onesonek]

I will keep my money, thanks. Call me one of the 2 1/2% ers...the number may be growing. Great business model!

I doubt that very much
you don't need to hold everyones hand business

In Turbo's defense, I can see where he's comming from.
First off, As meantion before, I can understand Tom's need/want for emails. And for the most part his ordering system is so straight forward, that is all that is necessary. Minor changes from catalog can be made on the comments of his order form. New designs, may need moree direct email communication. This I know you and others are aware of. In my dealings his response to my design request as mentioned, are breif in most instances,,,, "how's this",,my responce is just about as short, "that works,,Thanks Tom"
Ok, now for me and the Holsters, I require far more information, mostly for special needs or wants. And I like to get a read on the customer. That is why I request at least one phone conversation, prior to ordering. If can't build something they aren't going to be happy with, I want to know it up front. If I can't, do my best ot guide them to someone that may be can. While that don't happen often, it has happened.
Early on, I had built a rig for a customer, that insisted strictly communicating by email. I didn't fair well. While my rigs are highly user friendly, and simple, he couldn't understand the adjustments. Even with the aid of pictures, I couldn't get him to understand. Yet he wouldn't call where I might better walk him through it. Anyhow, I had him send it back, and made a new one with alterations at his request,,,,, the alterations made were miminal, and really changed nothing. But he had satistfaction with his design changes and was happy. That was my goal,,his happiness. Still that all could have been explained and or decided on, had we talked prior to ordering. I go through all the details on how they setup and and just right then there, even as simple as they are. If they have idea's, we talk it over, and I try my best to accomodate,,,if I can.
But what it taught me in my case, is not to deal strictly with emails. It wasn't so much the money I lost, but the head ache and time loss that came with it. 5-10 mins. up front on the phone, would have saved me at least 4 hrs., to work on someone else's rig.
So now, I explain in our intial email contact, that I need to talk with prior to ordering, explaining everything, otherwise I can't help them. In my case 99.8% understand and appreciate that, and I appreciate it moreso. In ways it's the best part of my business, as once the holster part is done, we often take time just to bs about hunting and what not. I enjoy that!!!
So I'm not at 2.5%, but rather .2 or maybe .25% that I won't deal with. But then I'm not dealing with the dollars per transaction that Turbo is. Different protocal, same game plan however. That's business,,,you bend until one can bend no more.
It's self preservation, Turbo's practices, aren't any different than your local business owner for banning a customer for shoplifting in many respects.
To consider yourself part of the 2.5% without knowing what his business is, is being just a bit shortsighted, maybe a bit naive, if not pompous. Everybody knows you can't please everybody all the time. Some aren't even worth trying. Think of it as arguing with a PETA person, or vegan on the benifits of hunting and eating meat of which you provided for youself.

[nanuk]

I think too many folks are reading too much into what is being posted

RMK offered some feedback, that appeared vague.

Tom replied with what I thought were very reasonable questions.

RMK offered nothing in return, but chose to downgrade the mould and Tom's service.

When I give feedback, I expect to back it up if called on it.....

[grubbylabs]

Well said Mike! I would hate to guess the number of emails he likely deals with on a daily basis. Being to the point, short and concise, is a non issue in my books.

I honestly don't think Tom has any thing to worry about. It is plain to see from the mas quantities of pictures on this forum that he makes a quality product.

I doubt that he is the only one that makes a good mold, however I am comfortable with how he works, I like the short to the pint emails, and he answers them way faster than any corporation.

When you have a custom mold in a matter of days, and email responses within a few hours on a Sunday night, I don't need a flowery response to tell me he wants me to be happy with his product.