Bull Plate: Substitute again

[Trey45]

Dan turned off his internet for reasons only known to him. That's all we know.

[wiljen]

Roysha,

A lot of us have asked that question, but no clear answers have been given. We have heard several different versions of the story and until such time as Dan or Tina are willing to and able to talk, I'm not sure we will know. Right now all we can do is hope it isnt anything more than closed for hunting season and that more details will be forthcoming upon his return.

Wish I could tell you more, but there isnt more to be told at this stage.

Wiljen

[Springfield]

Williamwaco: OK, I didn't exactly "buy" the 14 bottles. What actually happened is I had a bunch of raw WW for sale and Tim at the Bullshop wanted them and we ended up trading, WW for Bullplate. I was already using it and it was the best thing to ever happen to my casting. I run a small bullet business so I do a few thousand bullets a week. I hand cast them all as they are special BP bullets and can't be done on a machine, and Bullplate made everything work SO much better. I had dealt with The Bullshop before and found their service to be spotty at best, sometimes they just aren't available, like now. I loved his NASA lube but I couldn't be assured of a ready supply so I made my own similar, but not as good, recipe. Now I will never run out of Bullplate in my lifetime.

[cbrick]

Rick,

Here's the way I look at it but I'm a capitalist pig. All along I've been saying that Bullplate is the best sprue plate lube I've tried, unfortunately I can't get hold of anyone at Bullshop to fill my order and his website has been down for sometime. I've got to assume if the Bullplate business was that important to Dan, he would have left someone in charge or at least indicated via a webpage when shipping will continue. If he had made an attempt (I dunno, perhaps he did and I missed it) to alert his customers regarding an interruption in service, I never would have inquired about an alternative lube. The price of hosting a website through a reputable hosting company is between 5 and 10 bucks a month these days so that's not an excuse for leaving his customers in the dark. I apologize if he made an announcement regarding his absence here, but I doubt there'd be all this clambering if that was the case.

Anyway, the Stihl HP Ultra is orange colored and runny and is nowhere as good as Bullplate... there, I said it again.

If you don't want to post what you use here, I can appreciate that but a PM would be nice. MJ

Ok, I see a test in the making.

I'll have to get into the shop to see what I have on hand. If I have all three and some small bottles I'll send you a small sample of each labeled #1, #2, #3. You can use each and then report the results of each here, same as, better than or worse than Bull Plate, at that time I'll post what each is.

How's that sound? If you want to do this send me a PM with a shipping address.

EDIT: I should have added that one of the three will be Bull Plate.

Rick

[cbrick]

I thought there would be quite a bit of interest in doing this but 24 hours and not a single post. Haven't heard from MJ either, I asked him as both an experienced caster and experienced with Bull Plate.

I have used all three and would really like to see if others come to the same conclusions that I did.

Ok, waiting to hear from MJ.

Rick

[btroj]

I am not MJ but I would certainly be willing to take that test Rick. I have plenty of Bullplate still but am more than happy to help find an available alternative.

Brad

[cbrick]

I am not MJ but I would certainly be willing to take that test Rick. I have plenty of Bullplate still but am more than happy to help find an available alternative. Brad

I was waiting for MJ to respond just cause I asked him first. Guess he either missed this thread or doesn't want to.

I scrounged around the shop this morning and didn't find the little empty bottles I thought I had, will have to get some. I'll try a hobby store or some such, they should have little empty bottles.

PM me a shipping address and when I find some bottles I'll get them in the mail to you.

Use each exactly as you already do Bull Plate but clean the mold of Bull Plate first. Then either use different molds or clean the previous oil off before using the next. After using each, post here what you thought of #1 - #2 - #3 as either as good as, not as good as, same/is or better than Bull Plate. One and only one of the three bottles will be Bull Plate.

Should be interesting.

Rick

[yondering]

Ok, I see a test in the making.

I'll have to get into the shop to see what I have on hand. If I have all three and some small bottles I'll send you a small sample of each labeled #1, #2, #3. You can use each and then report the results of each here, same as, better than or worse than Bull Plate, at that time I'll post what each is.

How's that sound? If you want to do this send me a PM with a shipping address.

EDIT: I should have added that one of the three will be Bull Plate.

Rick

Just a thought; at my workplace we have a machine, can't remember the name of it, that could analyze the chemical content of those lubes. I'd have to talk to one of the lab techs about getting some tests run, but that would probably be the surest way of finding a lube that is similar to Bullplate. I managed to spill my bottle of it; I have enough left for testing but will need a substitute soon.

[cbrick]

Just a thought; at my workplace we have a machine, can't remember the name of it, that could analyze the chemical content of those lubes. I'd have to talk to one of the lab techs about getting some tests run, but that would probably be the surest way of finding a lube that is similar to Bullplate. I managed to spill my bottle of it; I have enough left for testing but will need a substitute soon.

That would be great. If your going to ask the tech see if he would analyze a couple or three, Bull Plate and a couple of others that folks here think are quite close.

Let us know what you find out, thanks.

Rick

[geargnasher]

Or, efforts could be directed in a much more effective way to find a substitute, rather than a duplicate.

I've championed Dan's cause from the beginning and will not disclose what Bullplate is, but aside from that I think it's high time to declare alternative sprue plate lubes to be "shareware" like all of our boolit lube, gun cleaning, and alloy recipes. I've posted what I've used as a substitute to pretty good effect.

Gear

[Buckshot]

............Most of the membership here has been 100% supportive of Dan & Tina of the Bullshop and their products. They were a strong and longtime supporter of Cast Boolits as members AND as a Vendor Sponser. Through faithfull and honest dealings they earned our respect. This was evidenced several times when someone unaware of this attempted to suggest something else to use instead of Bullplate lube. Heck, I used to send a signed check made out to the Bullshop with the stuff I needed and let them fill in the amount.

However, the Bullshops' Vendor Sponser status had lapsed some time before, and there's been no communication. In addition concerted efforts by the board owner and the mods has raised no response from Dan or Tina. A couple sources we've felt were knowledgeable but uninterested parties mentioned possible familial issues. If this were the case, and being personal we realize it was no business of ours, and would only wish them the best.

Due to this we felt that allowing open discussion towards a possible means of duplicating or replacing the excellent Bullplate lube with some other available product should no longer be viewed negatively by the board (members, mods & the board owner). Hopefully The Bullshop re-establishes itself. In the meantime if I can keep from knocking one of my bottles of the "Original Bullplate Lube" over, the 3 bottles on hand and the one I'm using should last me awhile

...............Buckshot

[bruce381]

Be advised there are at least 3-4 different additve systems for "2 cycle" oil. And perhaps half dozen additve mfg that make the systems which ALL vary a little.
Not counting in house formulas.

There are "2 cycle" oils for:
scooters
motor cycles
marine water cooled
power equipment
pre diluted 1-50 type
Un diluted 1-200 type and many more variations.
Economy (means cheap)
Premium (means exspensive and for warranty OEM)

ALL thease take a slighly different additve system regardless of base oil type or blend
of base oils which could be mineral, ester, bio based, synthetic PAO or GPIII etc or a blend of any of them.

So because of all the varibles to oil type, additve system it maybe hard to pin down exactly what bullplate is if it is even close to a 2 cycle oil at all.

Also some 2 cyle oils are Pre diluted with solvent some not again a wide range of oils in
the 2 cycle family.

If some one wants to send me 1 ounce of whatever I will run spectro and let you guys know type additve system is close, but need full bottle discription as to approvals and properties.

Testing base oil type is way harder to do also the newer oils are DIFFERENT that what was availble a few years ago so even if this is a 2 cyle oil it could be old material NOT made anymore so more varibles.

All 2 cyle oils have by design a very high boiling "lube" portion that wets out on the hot cylinder to keeps pistons from seizing and the additve system will keep rings clean of carbon and gunk by reducing oxidation, and deposit formation.

bruce

[Marlin Junky]

Rick,

Sorry for the delay but I've been kinda busy. I'm game but I'm not going to publicly say which is better than Bullplate.

MJ

P.S. PM sent

[Marlin Junky]

Or, efforts could be directed in a much more effective way to find a substitute, rather than a duplicate.

I've championed Dan's cause from the beginning and will not disclose what Bullplate is, but aside from that I think it's high time to declare alternative sprue plate lubes to be "shareware" like all of our boolit lube, gun cleaning, and alloy recipes. I've posted what I've used as a substitute to pretty good effect.

Gear

Couldn't agree more Gear and I would have already tried your suggestions if I could find them in my area. The closest thing I've found is some brake caliper stuff from O'Reilly Auto Parts that's more a grease than a heavy oil and the bottle indicates it's only good to about 450F (IIRC). I want a lube that will handle at least 450F, not start to break down at 450F.

MJ

P.S. Wait a second... you're the Sprayway guy, aren't you? I will try the Sprayway products if you think they'll be OK to 500F or so. What do you think? Are you a hot mold kind of guy?

[warf73]

I for one would be more than happy to be a test suject. I'm down to maybe a table spoon and a half of BP and then I'm out.
It works great for molds and also works great for swagging bullets which is were most of my BP went.
If you need a test monkey send me a PM and I'll shoot ya my info.

Warf

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

about a year ago, I tried DOMINATOR®
a polyalphaolefin (PAO) based
AMSoil synthethic 2 cycle racing oil, that's suppose to be
able to handle the higher heat and pressures of racing engines
and not smoke.

It didn't handle the heat on a mold/sprue plate like Bullplate does.
it didn't burn, but it gummed up.

It did work as a boolit lube when blended with Beeswax.
but so does alot of other oils.

I just thought I'd add that to the discussion.
Jon

[nanuk]

Rick,

Sorry for the delay but I've been kinda busy. I'm game but I'm not going to publicly say which is better than Bullplate.

MJ

P.S. PM sent

MJ: that is the beauty of the test

You will NOT know... only cbrick will really know

[milprileb]

There is a need for a substitute to Bull Plate. One guy says he won't say what works better that Bull Plate if a test was made.

I certainly hope Dan comes back to business because those of you that could help others
find a substitute are really playing a cute little game of Knowledge is Power. What surprises me is these are normally the guys who go out of their way to help others and folks don't come to this forum cause things are going peachy in casting. The void in what works in casting is huge and the only place that has answers is this forum.

Well, I am no expert but one kind gent here suggested DiElectric grease and the stuff works. Doesn't melt and as far as I am concerned, its the Bull Plate substitute until BP is back in business or some gent opens up on a recipe for a BP clone.

[btroj]

I don't see anyone playing games. Mny have said what they use as a substitute. I think there are people who are pretty sure what it is but don't want to publicly state same and potentially be wrong.

The fact this is even up for discussion is a good thing for us. I wish the original Bullplate was available but butit doesn't seem to be. Until such time as it is again available all we can do is speculate and do our best to come up with an alternative. I see progress being made here.

[fishnbob]

I don't see anyone playing games. Mny have said what they use as a substitute. I think there are people who are pretty sure what it is but don't want to publicly state same and potentially be wrong.

The fact this is even up for discussion is a good thing for us. I wish the original Bullplate was available but butit doesn't seem to be. Until such time as it is again available all we can do is speculate and do our best to come up with an alternative. I see progress being made here.

I see progress anytime a topic gets as much discussion as this. Hence the old saying, "NECESSITY IS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION". I know good and well there is another product out there that does the same thing. We just have to find it and refer to it as a "SPRUE LUBE" and drop the comparison to Bull Plate. There seems to be a couple of guys here with access to labs & testing and that is a good start.