Blackhorn 209 in 45/70 or 45/90?

[frank505]

I was shooting my 500 Linebaugh quite a bit in 2009 and using BH 209. One thing after another and a back operation shut down my shooting until mid 2010. All my guns were in the safe except for one 1911. Finally got back to shooting and remembered the 500. The bore and cylinders were covered in a grey crud. It cleaned up with Ballistol and no pitting or any other bad things. This gun sat uncleaned for about six months with no ill effects from BH209.
I will not use fillers in my guns especially dacron or kapok or whatever else someone dreams up. I prefer to fill the case with powder.

[tomon]

21 grains of 2400 through my Pedersoli Rolling Block shot 198-12x at 100 yards with a 378 grain round nose gas check bullet. I used no filler, but tapped them once bullet up before chambering. I have since changed out the front sight from the wide front blade to a
Tompkins (?) Highpower front sight with level. I expect the group to shrink further.

[oldred]

I will not use fillers in my guns especially dacron or kapok or whatever else someone dreams up. I prefer to fill the case with powder.

Kind of what I was thinking also and that's why BH209 is so appealing to me if it is suitable to load a full case in the 45/90. I will go by Bass Pro sometime this week and see if they have it in stock and if so maybe I can shoot a few rounds this weekend.

[frank505]

45 colt 7.26 barrel
20.0 grains 12,010 psi, vel 860, sd of 9.8, 250 gr bullet (lazer cast rnfp) WLP

19.0 " 10,910 " 829 5.6 " WLP
20 " 16,230 930 3.0 " CCI 350
20.0 " 18,490 887 1.2 310 Keith CCI 350

[frnkeore]

Thank you, very much, Frank

[oldred]

Got the BH209 this morning at Gander Mountain, a mite pricey compared to other powders but if it will do the job it may be worth it. My main concern is performance compared to BP at a given pressure but the info I have gotten here seems to indicate that won't be a problem. Trail Boss, the first powder I had considered, was quite a disappointment for a buddy of mine because while it is bulky enough to properly take up space in the case it yielded pop-gun velocities! The fellow at the store was quite familiar with the BH209 powder and even had some loading data since he uses it for 45/110 in a Sharps. There is only one loading on the chart for 45/90 with a 500 grain slug and it is for 42.6 grains which yields a 98% case fill but almost 28,000 PSI which is a bit more than I had hoped for and apparently higher than real BP. I will try a few rounds at this loading and see what happens but if I need to back off a bit that apparently will require a filler which is what I am trying to avoid. The guy who sold me this powder REALLY likes it and assures me that if I can stand the recoil of that load with the 500 Gr slug in my 12 lb rifle it will most likely be what I am looking for. He was quick to point out that BH209 should not be compared to any of the BP subs such as Pyrodex, Triple 7, etc since it is more like a bulky smokeless and should be considered as such. We will see!

[excess650]

I've not tried it in cartridges, but have shot it a fair amount in my inline. I've shot as many as 40 shots without cleaning and the residue left after the last was about the same as after the first. BH209 may be considered a substitute, but it isn't hygroscopic, and doesn't clean with water based cleaners. Its cleaned with nitro solvent. The most fouling I get is from the primer in the breech plug, and it needs to be removed with a 1/8" drill bit.

The BH209 web page lists loading data for cartridges, but I haven't printed it out. Its expense is what keeps me from trying it in the 45-70 when I already have AA5744 on hand. I DO like the accuracy that I get form BH209 from my .50 Omega, and it sometimes leaves me shaking my head after shooting tiny groups at 100 yards.

As for the pressure generated, Lyman 46th lists 45-120-3-1/4 listed with the 500gr nominal 457125 with ffg BP and Pyrodex Ctg. Pyrodex made 26,800 CUP and ffg 29,600 CUP.

I have left my Omega "fouled" for up to a couple of months with no indication of any corrosion.

[oldred]

As for the pressure generated, Lyman 46th lists 45-120-3-1/4 listed with the 500gr nominal 457125 with ffg BP 29,600 CUP.

I have left my Omega "fouled" for up to a couple of months with no indication of any corrosion.

That's enlightening, I never realized the BP pressures went that high in these big cases. My expectations for BP was for 18,000 to about 22,000 for max pressure but my research on BP cartridge pressures is somewhat limited and is mostly based on 45/70 Trapdoor loadings.

[excess650]

That's enlightening, I never realized the BP pressures went that high in these big cases. My expectations for BP was for 18,000 to about 22,000 for max pressure but my research on BP cartridge pressures is somewhat limited and is mostly based on 45/70 Trapdoor loadings.

45-70 loadings with BP and Pyrodex are considerably lower than the 45-120, so the 45-90 will be between them, but more like the 45-70. Lyman 47th lists Ruger #1 data, 500gr 457125 with ffg at 12,300 CUP and Pyrodex at 19,800 CUP. With BP the largest cases with the heaviest boolits make the most pressure. Keep in mind that straight cases have much less breech thrust compared to bottlenecks.

The original highwall action was strong by design. Modern steel and heat treatment make them stronger. Old barrels from the BP era are weak in comparison to modern barrels.

[oldred]

The original highwall action was strong by design. Modern steel and heat treatment make them stronger. Old barrels from the BP era are weak in comparison to modern barrels.

This rifle is a High Wall replica that has a Green Mountain 4140 heavy octagon barrel and the receiver and breech block were machined from a solid piece of 4140 HT steel, in addition the receiver is a "thick side" version meaning it has about 30% thicker side walls. In theory this rifle should handle some really heavy loads safely but since I have no desire for more than BP performance levels I see no reason to push the limit. It was proof tested with 4 rounds loaded to Ruger no.1 pressure levels but no way would I consider using loads anywhere near that hot except for those used for the initial test firing.

[Nomad5095]

I was on the Western Powders website today and they had a link to some black powder cartridge loads using Blackhorn 209. It's not a large list, but it is a start. Here is the link:

http://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-conte...tridgedata.pdf