RotoMetals2Inline FabricationReloading EverythingRepackbox
Lee PrecisionTitan ReloadingLoad DataWideners
MidSouth Shooters Supply
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: 308 or 309 resizing die for 309 boolit?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy Lead Freak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Keystone Heights, FL
    Posts
    113

    308 or 309 resizing die for 309 boolit?

    I'm buying a Lee 113gr or 150gr 309 dia boolit mold and I'm not sure which resizing die to go for. I will be loading 30-30 Win. for a Marlin micro-grooved lever gun and would like to know if I should go with a 308 or 309 resizing die. What are the pros/cons for each?

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
    Ben's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, AL
    Posts
    9,255
    Possibly neither of the ones you've listed. Many Marlin Micro Groove rifles got their bad reputation for shooting cast bullets with the very diameters that you've listed.

    When people began using a 310 and even better a .311 sizing die for their cast bullets, they found out that Marlin Micro groove barrels would really shoot well.
    Last edited by Ben; 10-06-2011 at 05:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Hurricane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    266
    I think .311 would be a good choice. I use .311 for all 30 caliber uses.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


    williamwaco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dallas Texas
    Posts
    4,690
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post

    I think .311 would be a good choice. I use .311 for all 30 caliber uses.


    DITTO.

    Rifles and handguns.
    First reload: .22 Hornet. 1956.
    More at: http://reloadingtips.com/

    "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the
    government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
    - Henry Ford

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    1,195

    Wink

    When you get your sizer push a boolit through it & check the size. I have a number of them & all where smaller the claimed. It does let you "custom" fit them as you need.
    Gun control 1ST ROUND ON TARGET.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
    btroj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Nebraska's oldest city
    Posts
    12,418
    It matters not what size the bullet or mould wants- it only matters what the barrel wants.

    I size to .311 for my Marlin 30-30 with microgroove and get good results. .308 or .309 is likely to make the barrel very unhappy.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master



    cbrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kalifornia Escapee
    Posts
    8,034
    Quote Originally Posted by 6.5 mike View Post
    When you get your sizer push a boolit through it & check the size. I have a number of them & all where smaller the claimed. It does let you "custom" fit them as you need.
    In all probability what your measuring is the variation in alloy as sized differences. Most of my dies will size my alloy about .0004" smaller than die marked diameter except my four 30 caliber dies that size the same alloy as die marked diameter + .0001-2". Any change in your alloy will changed the as sized diameter.

    Rick
    "The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

    "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

    NRA Benefactor Life Member
    CRPA Life Member

  8. #8
    Boolit Master


    frkelly74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SAGINAW
    Posts
    2,381
    +1 .311, Slug the bore and see what it measures.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    2,264
    I learned, in Schuetzen and CBA competition; a number of interesting things.

    1. Everything you do to the cast boolet after the sprue solidifies is bad for it. The sizing die has a certain +/- manufacturing tolerance. So does the top punch. So does the sizer ram, and the machine itself. Scheutzen guys pan lube their boolets so nothing harder than the lube itself touches the boolet until it is breech seated. CBA guys generally size in a die slightly larger than the "As-Cast" dimension and then swage it to fit their custom chamber reamer throat. The two groups top shooters arrived at the same conclusion independently: fitting the throat is T-H-E most important of the accuracy equation.

    Since the CBA records are in the .2 to .25 moa range, I have changed my boolet treatment to parallel theirs.

    YMMV*

    Rich

    * Your Mileage May Vary

  10. #10
    Boolit Master HARRYMPOPE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    GRANT COUNTY Wa.
    Posts
    2,134
    "Everything you do to the cast boolet after the sprue solidifies is bad for it

    if done wrong yes.Like Rich says bumped or re-swaged bullets in good dies are as accurate in BR guns with fixed ammo(most CBA records are with bullets massaged as such).I cant argue with the Schuetzen guys as Tommy Mason And Bev Pinney have told me pan lubing in 32 Millers and 32-40's cant be beat and i believe them.Now breech seating and fixed ammo are different animals .

    What CBA matches have you been attending Rich?

    George

  11. #11
    Boolit Master



    mpmarty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Oregon aka Jefferson State
    Posts
    1,827
    Forget sizing it just adds problems. Measure the as cast diameters and see if they will chamber. I let my barrels size my boolits.
    Marty-hiding out in the hills.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

    MtGun44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    eastern Kansas- suburb of KC
    Posts
    15,023
    308 will certainly be undersized, 309 almost certainly. By .310 you may succeed, but
    Microgroove bbls are often oversized slightly. You need to slug your barrel, and size a bit
    larger, like .002 at least more than the groove diameter. If you don't slug, start at .311
    and see how it goes. mpmarty's idea is not a bad one.

    Bill
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,946
    LF, Perhaps my Marlin #336 (ca. 1991) was an anomaly, but it greatly preferred CB's sized to .310" over those sized to .309" or .311". Although Lee Precision doesn't currently offer .310" sizing dies, they do have a .309" die, which you can easily enlarge to .310" and then .311" if necessary. Here's how it's done: http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/How...Size%20Die.pdf

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
    rond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ivanhoe, TX
    Posts
    407
    I use .309 in mine, but I use a gas check.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy Lead Freak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Keystone Heights, FL
    Posts
    113

    Safe?

    Quote Originally Posted by MtGun44 View Post
    308 will certainly be undersized, 309 almost certainly. By .310 you may succeed, but
    Microgroove bbls are often oversized slightly. You need to slug your barrel, and size a bit
    larger, like .002 at least more than the groove diameter. If you don't slug, start at .311
    and see how it goes. mpmarty's idea is not a bad one.

    Bill
    Could I safely assume that if the bullet will chamber, that it will be safe to shoot (considering bullet diameter that is)? I guess what I'm worried about are higher pressures caused by a larger diameter. Should I start with a lighter charge when increasing bullet diameter?

  16. #16
    In Remembrance


    DLCTEX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Eastern panhandle,Tx
    Posts
    6,255
    Marlin chambers are generally large. I don't recall ever hearing of one that would not accept a .311 boolit.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master







    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Omaha, Ne.
    Posts
    5,422
    No question in my military mind on this one! Go with .311! The only thing that I have in 30 that shoots .308-309 is my K-31 Swiss which is that tight. .310's shoot ok in most of my 30's, but not as well as 311's, so the .310 sizing die seldom, if ever in the last few years gets used. Good luck!
    1Shirt!
    "Common Sense Is An Uncommon Virtue" Ben Franklin

    "Ve got too soon old and too late smart" Pa.Dutch Saying

  18. #18
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    N.Y.
    Posts
    59
    Why resize?why not just use a .311 bullet mold.i am asking because I want to cast for a 30/30,I was going to buy a .309 double cavity from Lee and now I hear people who should know telling me to buy SKS size cast bullets! I want to keep this simple( KISS) I have lots of lead,lots of powder,jacketeds are not as cheap or easy to get as they were,but molds are easy to find,so why can,'t this be simple?!why is feeding my Marlin complicated?can someone help me buy the right stuff?do they even make a .311 mold for a 30/30?why do they make a .309 mold then?I don't do much cast bullets can you tell?

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Las Cruces, NM
    Posts
    4,535
    These are good questions. The problem is that not all barrels are made equal, and different alloys cast at different diameters. Sometimes even changing the mold temperature or melted lead temperature can change the cast bullet dia.

    Rifle manufacturers use tooling that is worn in use. As it wears the dimensions of the barrel will change a little. Older rifles made with cut rifling were even more varied in mass production since each operator measured as they went. And, as the barrel is fired it starts to wear out, so if you have an older barrel it may require larger dia bullets.

    Marlin came out with the microgroove for some reason. Maybe they thought it was a good idea at the time, but, it made shooting with cast different than with standard rifling. The shallower rifling does not 'grip' the lead as well so a properly fitted bullet is even more important.

    Lee made .309 molds because the majority of rifles made had .308 groove diameters. So, you could use their bullets without sizing when using wheel weight lead. The problem is if you have a rifle with slightly oversize barrel then they are too small. That's why you see Lyman and others make the bullets .311 or bigger. Some of the military surplus barrels might even need .314 bullets.

    This is not a difficult thing to get figured out, but, it does take more than just a pot to melt lead and a mold when you are dealing with some rifles.

    You should also know that you may need to use lower velocities than when using jacketed bullets.

    Many of us who cast do like the challenge of making our own bullets that will come close to or out perform commercial bullets. It is not easy and sometimes not cheap to get started.

    Something you might want to consider is powder coating your bullets. It increases the diameter a little bit and makes a 'tougher' bullet that does not lead the barrel as easily.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check