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Thread: 308 or 309 resizing die for 309 boolit?

  1. #1
    Boolit Man Lead Freak's Avatar
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    308 or 309 resizing die for 309 boolit?

    I'm buying a Lee 113gr or 150gr 309 dia boolit mold and I'm not sure which resizing die to go for. I will be loading 30-30 Win. for a Marlin micro-grooved lever gun and would like to know if I should go with a 308 or 309 resizing die. What are the pros/cons for each?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Possibly neither of the ones you've listed. Many Marlin Micro Groove rifles got their bad reputation for shooting cast bullets with the very diameters that you've listed.

    When people began using a 310 and even better a .311 sizing die for their cast bullets, they found out that Marlin Micro groove barrels would really shoot well.
    Last edited by Ben; 10-06-2011 at 05:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Hurricane's Avatar
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    I think .311 would be a good choice. I use .311 for all 30 caliber uses.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post

    I think .311 would be a good choice. I use .311 for all 30 caliber uses.


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  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    Wink

    When you get your sizer push a boolit through it & check the size. I have a number of them & all where smaller the claimed. It does let you "custom" fit them as you need.
    Gun control 1ST ROUND ON TARGET.

  6. #6
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    It matters not what size the bullet or mould wants- it only matters what the barrel wants.

    I size to .311 for my Marlin 30-30 with microgroove and get good results. .308 or .309 is likely to make the barrel very unhappy.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by 6.5 mike View Post
    When you get your sizer push a boolit through it & check the size. I have a number of them & all where smaller the claimed. It does let you "custom" fit them as you need.
    In all probability what your measuring is the variation in alloy as sized differences. Most of my dies will size my alloy about .0004" smaller than die marked diameter except my four 30 caliber dies that size the same alloy as die marked diameter + .0001-2". Any change in your alloy will changed the as sized diameter.

    Rick
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  8. #8
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    +1 .311, Slug the bore and see what it measures.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I learned, in Schuetzen and CBA competition; a number of interesting things.

    1. Everything you do to the cast boolet after the sprue solidifies is bad for it. The sizing die has a certain +/- manufacturing tolerance. So does the top punch. So does the sizer ram, and the machine itself. Scheutzen guys pan lube their boolets so nothing harder than the lube itself touches the boolet until it is breech seated. CBA guys generally size in a die slightly larger than the "As-Cast" dimension and then swage it to fit their custom chamber reamer throat. The two groups top shooters arrived at the same conclusion independently: fitting the throat is T-H-E most important of the accuracy equation.

    Since the CBA records are in the .2 to .25 moa range, I have changed my boolet treatment to parallel theirs.

    YMMV*

    Rich

    * Your Mileage May Vary

  10. #10
    Boolit Master HARRYMPOPE's Avatar
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    "Everything you do to the cast boolet after the sprue solidifies is bad for it

    if done wrong yes.Like Rich says bumped or re-swaged bullets in good dies are as accurate in BR guns with fixed ammo(most CBA records are with bullets massaged as such).I cant argue with the Schuetzen guys as Tommy Mason And Bev Pinney have told me pan lubing in 32 Millers and 32-40's cant be beat and i believe them.Now breech seating and fixed ammo are different animals .

    What CBA matches have you been attending Rich?

    George

  11. #11
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    Forget sizing it just adds problems. Measure the as cast diameters and see if they will chamber. I let my barrels size my boolits.
    Marty-hiding out in the hills.

  12. #12
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    308 will certainly be undersized, 309 almost certainly. By .310 you may succeed, but
    Microgroove bbls are often oversized slightly. You need to slug your barrel, and size a bit
    larger, like .002 at least more than the groove diameter. If you don't slug, start at .311
    and see how it goes. mpmarty's idea is not a bad one.

    Bill
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    LF, Perhaps my Marlin #336 (ca. 1991) was an anomaly, but it greatly preferred CB's sized to .310" over those sized to .309" or .311". Although Lee Precision doesn't currently offer .310" sizing dies, they do have a .309" die, which you can easily enlarge to .310" and then .311" if necessary. Here's how it's done: http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/How...Size%20Die.pdf

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    I use .309 in mine, but I use a gas check.

  15. #15
    Boolit Man Lead Freak's Avatar
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    Safe?

    Quote Originally Posted by MtGun44 View Post
    308 will certainly be undersized, 309 almost certainly. By .310 you may succeed, but
    Microgroove bbls are often oversized slightly. You need to slug your barrel, and size a bit
    larger, like .002 at least more than the groove diameter. If you don't slug, start at .311
    and see how it goes. mpmarty's idea is not a bad one.

    Bill
    Could I safely assume that if the bullet will chamber, that it will be safe to shoot (considering bullet diameter that is)? I guess what I'm worried about are higher pressures caused by a larger diameter. Should I start with a lighter charge when increasing bullet diameter?

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    Marlin chambers are generally large. I don't recall ever hearing of one that would not accept a .311 boolit.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master







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    No question in my military mind on this one! Go with .311! The only thing that I have in 30 that shoots .308-309 is my K-31 Swiss which is that tight. .310's shoot ok in most of my 30's, but not as well as 311's, so the .310 sizing die seldom, if ever in the last few years gets used. Good luck!
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check