Short Action Savage/Stevens 7mm-08

[Oldfeller]

After telling all you folks a while back about the Savage 110 rifles being sold under the Stevens brand-name at a bargan price from Wal-Mart (on special order basis), I finally got to a place in my life that I had a few extra coins and a wee bit of time at home between jobs to go ahead and buy me one of these little "diamonds in the rough" type guns.

Cost was $268, BTW. Same price will get you a 300 Winchester Magnum or other common long-action case if you really WANT to kick your shoulder around. Long action or short action it doesn't matter -- any caliber Stevens is special order priced at Wal-Mart for $268.

If you are looking a 30-06 or a 270 in particular then take a gander at the Mossberg ATR 100 at $244 (it is sitting out in the rotary display case already). They are getting some decent reviews from early purchasers. The gun is actually a Charter Arms design that Mossberg bought up both the design & tooling for when Charter Arms folded up. Mossberg tried to bring the gun out once earlier, but it didn't take as the Savage 110's were a whole lot cheaper back then and Savage took "corrective actions" to keep their market share.

(And why do you think the low cost Savage/Stevens came popping out of the woodwork right about now? Ponder on it a bit and you won't be too far off the mark with your conclusions -- but also figure that when the Mossberg ATR 100 goes away so does your cheap Savage/Stevens rifles so go get yourself one while this dandy little low-end price war is going on).

I picked me a Stevens in a caliber that I didn't already have, a 7mm-08 short action 22" sporter barrel (6.5 pound weight non-scoped) plastic stocked gun. Gun has a standard trigger and will be laser marked "Stevens" instead of Savage. Other than that, it is last year's Savage 110 model -- before the Accu-trigger design took over.

Why do this? Because I am still trying to build me a very small light weightinexpensive sling-carry-it-all-day rifle. Because the jacketed ballistics on the 7mm-08 are impressive, clearly exceeding those for a .308 for longer distance shooting with any similar jacketed bullet weights. Because I know a lot about 6.5 cast bullets, and I might finally get to actually use that knowledge in a 9.5 twist rate gun of very similar diameter. Because I also wanted to see about that 7mm group buy bullet mold we have never quite been able to pull together yet (even though the group has tried several times to pull together a 7mm order but failed due to lack of order/interest).

(yo, trk -- I read Accurate even though I don't post since they fouled up my password so I can't use it. Maybe Paul H. can fix my Accurate email so I can use it to update my password -- if so I will post on your thread over there on your 7mm-08 cast mold)

Oldfeller

------------------------------------- continued

[Oldfeller]

This thread is a "saga of a rifle" type thread, it will start with ordering the gun from Wal-Mart. This was surprisingly easy to do, they keep a special order book behind the counter for you to flip through and you can order ANY make or model of rifle from that book at the very best price I have ever seen for brand new guns. Lots & lots cheaper than a gun store as Wal-Mart takes a lower mark up percentage.

The clerk then walks you back to Lay-Away and you put a Lay-Away 50% down on the gun's final price. Whole credit card transaction takes 5 minutes and was remarkably trouble-free and easy to do. Wal-Mart does a lot of Lay-Away stuff and has their Lay-Away computer systems down pretty pat.

Now we wait 5-10 shipping days for the gun to come in. Like all Wal-Mart stuff the gun is drop shipped from mgf to store on an instant-order ship it today basis. The Lay-Away system orders the gun automatically when your charge card amount clears since it is "out of stock" at the store. Instantly, a drop ship order shows up at Savage -- and they process it ASAP as Wal-Mart is a BIG seller of their products.

In the mean time, let's talk about Savages a bit. Some hate the way they look, most don't care for the factory lawyer trigger pulls (Accu-triggers are really nice, BTW, but not really worth $100+ price upper). And most will find the injection mould parting lined light gray plastic stocks to look kinda cheesy.

But nobody really argues that Savages have earned a reputation for shooting really really well right out of the box. Consistently well, to the point some consider them to be the only box stock minute-of-angle or less rifles that you can buy for a low end price. We shall see if the Stevens brand successfully carries this rep over from the standard Savage 110 rifles.

You can find a lot of various info on the web about tuning a standard Savage trigger -- info I don't really care for because it involves removing the skin on a sintered/carbuized/fused powdered metal skin sear and notch arrangement as you "fine tune" the engagement. I will be investigating adding material to the low pressure sear height stop side along the same notion that the very old Savage triggers (pre-lawyer vintage) had with their fine pitch engagement height tuning screw which let you tune the sear engagement down to whatever you felt was safe for your gun. This way I will leave all my sintered skin durability in place but get the shorter crisper engagement zone that I desire. Trigger pull weight, that means playing with the coil spring compression a bit. We will see how that works out when the gun gets here.

There is web info on reinforcing the plastic stock forend section, removing some extra plastic for channel to barrel clearance and glass bedding in the "steel pillar" area to add extra sturdyness to the stock/action junction. Mileage on this sort of work varied, some actually said the factory arrangement was just as good if it was tightened down periodically (the plastic yeilds a bit under compression). Me, I will be looking to lighten the stock (if possible) while strengthening it, certainly I am not going to be adding any more weight to it.

Hey, it's a hobby toy ..... I spent a lot more time and effort cherrying up several 8x57 and 6.5 milsurp guns. You can cherry up a brand new cheapie Stevens gun a whole lot easier for about the same total $$$ investment.

I do like my short light rifles, I already built me a bear killing 250 grain box-car slinging scoped short light .333 caliber Steyr that kicks the immortal **** out of my shoulder when I shoot it with full bore loads, so this time I am going much "lighter" on the caliber so as to put more shooting pleasure back into my equation.

Did you know that people like to shoot moose and elk out west with 165 and 175 grain 7mm premium bullets? If you think about it, using a new Barnes X bullet (or a Winchester Fail-Safe) which will still open up and will still penetrate all the way through even at "lower than magnum velocities" with their 100% weight retention and low opening speeds? Did you know that a similar 145 grain slug out of a 7mm-08 can do the about same job, given fail-safe or X bullet type construction and 100% bullet weight retention?

As Jump keeps telling us, it's THE HOLE that matters -- be careful to put it in the right place and please have it go all the way through if possible.

Now I know you all know this little factoid -- Bell shot his hundreds of elephants with 7mm FMJ bullets. They weren't all brain shots either, he'd lung shoot them too (from a good distance of course). He used a lower pressure, lower velocity 7x57 to do it with -- 7mms get excellent meat and bone penetration for the same reasons they get those superior BCs in flight.

Hey, what you may not consider is that I really DO know how damn hard it is to stop 1,650 fps cast 6.5 bullets. So, I KNOW my new light-weight 7mm-08 cast bullet rifle isn't going to be "undergunned" for very much down here in the lower 48 states.

I am also hoping for some much faster bullet fps speeds than the 6.5 cast slugs .... we done been promised faithfully they do exist by both Joe and Buckshot.

Heck, If all it costs me is an extra gas check ......

<g>

Oldfeller

[David R]

I purchased the 308 the same way you got yours.

About the trigger. The return spring is adjustable, its a long torsion spring with one coil on it. I only cleaned up the trigger and sear faces with some 600 wet or dry. I then soldered a feeler gauge to the part where the sear stop for engagment is. I ended up using a .008 piece. Trigger pull is now awesome. If I bang the rifle on the floor REAL HARD it will occasionally trip the trigger. I can tighten up the spring if I want. The 3 position safty works fine except some times when I am firing full house J boolits, the safty goes on by its self. The first time this happened it scared the crap outa me because I went to lift the bolt and thought I had a bad reload and blew up the gun. Once I realized the safty was on, I just slid it off. I don't hunt with this gun at all. Its just a play target gun to shoot cast out of. The only reason I shot the J boolits is to schmooz out the barrel. It has and never will shoot a factory load. I have been getting good groups (3/4" @ 50 yards) with a 311466 ahead of 11 grains of red dot or 20 grains of 2400. I like this gun, it comes with no sites like a rifle should be. I am looking at boyds for a laminated stock. The grey plastic one is real felxable at the fore end. The piller bedding is nice. I don't know if a different stock will change how it shoots, but it will look better. I like blue steel and wood. I have been spending so much time with my enfield and 24V that I have not given all the attention that I want to. I think I have both of those rifles shooting the way I want. I do have about 4500 30 cal boolits cast for it and my enfield. One reason I bought it was I didn't have a nice gun with a scope on it to shoot cast. Now I do. I bought a Burris (bushnell?) 4-12 AO at wally world for $69.00 to keep in spirit with the gun purchase. So far it has been a lot of fun and seems to shoot well.

Waiting to hear how yours shoots.

Don't do this at home, What works on my gun may not be safe on yours yadda yadda yadda.

David

[felix]

David, please don't forget your statement--I don't hunt with this gun at all--until you can throw that gun down on concrete and not have that trigger trip. I know from past experience (with a shotgun). Trick triggers are for bench guns only. ... felix

[StarMetal]

I have to agree with Felix on a touchy trigger for hunting. In my opinion a hair trigger has no reason to be on hunting rifle, except maybe on a heavy barreled, heavy rifle, with bipods and strictly used for varmint shooting at long distances. My CZ 550 30-06 has a set trigger, which is wonderful, but there's no way in hell I would ever set it for deer hunting.

Oldfeller,

There's a long story of how I ended up with my Sako 7mm-08 Mannlicher carbine, but I don't want to tell it here and now. What I can say is I'm not one bit sorry I have that rifle now. It's one heck of a round and deer slayer. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it shoots a hard alloy Lee 135 gr cast bullet just the same as the 139 Hornady's I've used for hunting and that's 3/4 inch groups, and that cast is going nearly 2700 fps. It also shoots to the same impact as the jacketed. Can't ask for more then that.

Joe

[Oldfeller]

Felix, I generally do my trigger work first, then I bounce mine on the butt pad a time or five pretty hard to see if it will fire. Then I cock it again while I am making my pound slug of the throat area. If it won't go off while I am whapping that steel rod with a light sledge hammer I figure it is safe enough for personal uses. I mount the scope last, of course (sledge hammers and scope optics don't mix very well).

Beyond that, I don't really WANT a hair trigger for a big game gun -- I'd get excited and squeeze it off too soon. 3-4 lbs & clean breaking is what I am after. What I don't want is a mushy long-traveling pull up (nobody knows when this thing is going to get there) trigger with a mile of overtravel slop to flop around in after it lets go.

Light recoiling guns that are intended for some varmint work (like my 6.5 swede for example) do get a lighter trigger than say a hard recoiling 8mm gun. Hell, you have to be able to really hand grip a strong recoiling gun or it will beat you to death, so you can't be dialing in any hair triggers on your strong recoiling guns.

My lever action Marlin still has a 4-5 pound trigger, but some of the excess take up travel was removed. To lighten it more would take too much work and 4-5 might be a correct amount of pull for a gun where your actual trigger finger is going up and down with the lever each time you work the action. (yes, I know there are lever close buttons that have to make and there are interupters in the firing pin itself to keep it from firing out of battery, but it shoots real good the way it is and I like it the way it is just dandy).

This one will tend to be lighter, but I won't be doing stupid stuff to get there. Last Savage I did was 3 pounds and crisp, so it can be done.

Oldfeller

[Oldfeller]

Hey Joe, you told me that story before (and it is a good one -- the Sako guy tried to take good care of you and apparently he did). I don't know if my Savage/Stevens is going to have tall enough rifling to support the standard LEE nose, I'll find out after I get my pound slugs done.

We need to do us a good 7mm bullet -- we designed one last year that was Loverin based that looked about like the 6.5 Kurtz slug scaled up a bit. Dan at MM can cut 7mm molds now, so that is an option as well.

Oldfeller

[Frank46]

Oldfeller, in '95 when I retired I purchased a savage 110FP tactical rifle in 308. Paid $289 for it. It has the rynite (plastic) stock. That was when savage made long actions for short calibers. I could not get this rifle to shoot consistently. Finally figured out that it was the stock itself causing the problem. Was so flexible that the action was shifting each time it was fired. The portion of the stock where the reciever ring sits was filled with accra glass gel. Poured it in and then poked some more in to fill the gaps. Rifle will do 3/4" w/jbullets. But the front receiver screw still has to be checked as sometimes it will loosen up. Already got some nice shavings from the stock. When It cools down will put in an aluminum pillar. But it was worth the time and effort.Even now when I check the action for rust the stock where the bedding compound was installed has to be massaged to get the action back in. Frank

[David R]

My dad and I both had Savage 110's in long action. His a 270, mine a 7mm mag. One of the action screws was too long and hitting the bolt. We had to file a little off the end of screw and things were fine.


No I do not hunt. I am shooting targets 2x a week or so. I gave up hunting Deer because not enough shooting goes on and I don't eat them. Small game, that is another story. I think a good trigger is as important as a Decent scope for a target rifle.


I think this gun is a fine piece especially considering the price. Being able to put the safty on and work the action is a nice feature.

David

[felix]

Kelly, a clean break 3.5 pound trigger, even if it has a lot of take-up, is perfect for field conditions, as well as for off-hand target. A 2.0 pound trigger for light recoiling guns is fine when the gun can point only in one direction. Varmit guns fit this latter category, as well as some fine light recoiling autos. I shot a sillywet rifle with a 2 ounce trigger during a match, and found that thing to be far too dangerous for anything but that sport. No, correction. Just too damn dangerous, period. ... felix

[waksupi]

I agree with the light trigger thing. I have three firearms with set triggers, which are strickly for competition, and one with what most would consider a hair trigger, on a varmint rifle, that is used for longer range rest shooting generally. If you can't lay your finger on the trigger without worrying about it going off, it's too light for most purposes, and is outright dangerous.

Someone mentioned the fact they like to be able to open the action on a bolt rifle, when the safety is on. That may be ok for small game or hunting in the flatlands, but absolutely sucks for mountain hunting. You will find the bolt is snagged repeatedly by the smallest twig, and the action opened when hunting heavy steep timber. Ammo gets lost, as sometimes you may not notice it immediately, and when I had one of the Ruger rifles years back, I was always concerned I may actually loose the bolt. And that isn't a good thing when you're thirty miles on horseback to the highway, let alone somewhere to replace any lost items.

[David R]

Waksupi

The savage has a 3 position safty. You can put it on to lock the bolt, or unlock the bolt with the safty still engaged. With the light trigger, its nice to keep the safty locked while loading.

[Trailblazer]

I submit that what makes a safe trigger is what you are used to. I was serious about rifle silhouette several years ago. The rules allow a 2 lb. trigger for hunter class. I therefore attempted to get all my rifles to have about a 2 lb. pull including my hunting rifles so that I would be used to it. I have never had an accidental discharge with a 2 lb. pull. I don't know of any competitive shooters that willingly use a heavier trigger pull than is allowed by the rules. That said, the service rifle boys are limited to a 4-1/2 lb. pull and they do quite well. I also hunt in warm weather where you do not need gloves. If I hunted in cold weather I would be more comfortable with a heavier trigger.

Safety is between your ears. If I am in the brush there is not a round in the chamber unless I am at port arms and expect to see something. I also constantly check the safety and bolt in the brush to make sure things are where they are supposed to be. I also don't stick my fingers inside the trigger guard until it is time to shoot.

[slughammer]

Then I cock it again while I am making my pound slug of the throat area. If it won't go off while I am whapping that steel rod with a light sledge hammer I figure it is safe enough for personal uses.

Oldfeller

When you are making a pound slug, do you find the diameter of the slug in the throat area to be slightly oversize? Reason I ask is I was just comparing a couple of attemps at measuring my Savage 340 and found some variations.

I did one attempt from the back using a 38 cal pure lead slug driven forward into the neck and then driven out from the front. My attempt from the front was using a fired case filled with lead, then a 30 caliber pure lead slug was inserted into the neck and closed in the rifle. I used the steel rod to pound from the muzzle end and expand the slug. When opening the action, I needed to tap the steel rod to extract the slug; so I'm thinking the slug was over expanded and springed out when extracted. The 38 slug measures the throat out at .3115 and the 30 cal slug says nearly .313.

The technique with the fired case is very nice because it showed me that the chamber is 2.100 long, but I trust the 38 slug better for the throat and chamber neck diameters.

Which technique are you using?

[Oldfeller]

Take a fired case with the primer intact from that gun, stick a round pencil or a pen body or a wooden dowel into the case mouth to provide a diameter a little less than the bullet diameter, wrap shoulder and neck in tin foil for several wraps then tape the tin foil securely to the case and to itself but not to the pen body. The tin foil must extend further than a bullet would by a quarter of an inch or a bit more as it is going to get shorter when you pound on it.

Pull pen body carefully, grab case with pliers and fill case and tin foil "bullet" area up with molten lead, refilling it as the lead shrinks down the tin foil "neck/bullet zone. Let the case/slug cool slowly -- do not water quench.

Remove tin foil and spin case in drill press while dressing "slug" with file -- goal is for the slug to just barely go into throat freely upon loading. Take steel drill rod from hardware store that will go down bore with a bit of clearance and dress it at the end so it has a slight taper and a flat end. Clearance of 1/8" rod to bore is about ideal for this use. Add masking tape to drill rod by the end zone (two rows leaving 3/8" of steel sticking out at the end) add a row in the middle and two rows up by the top such that your rifling always hits tape, never steel. Without this support the rod will bow and hit your rifling while you are pounding on the slug (a bad thing).

Put oiled slug in chamber, leave safety off & gun cocked (this is your trigger test mode). Carefully insert rod from muzzle and let it go down until it rests on the lead protrusion. Hold gun vertical, take light short handled sledge hammer and hit the end of the rod with a straight up-down blow such that the hammer remains engaged to the rod end at the end of the blow. Continue hitting until you get bored or you feel the bounce becoming more and more solid (lead has expanded fully when it doesn't give any more).

Leave rod in place and try to raise bolt handle. "Drag and it opens" is generally not pounded enough, a stuck case is normal for this activity. Do not force the bolt handle to open, just raise it until it is stopped by the case retractor groove and the bolt extractor and let it rest right there. DO NOT FORCE IT. Return gun to upright hitting position and very lightly bump the steel rod with the big hammer. VERY LIGHTLY, once or twice. The case will move back and reseat on the bolt face, allowing a bit more bolt movement.

Raise bolt handle some more and repeat bumping action until the chamber finally releases the pound slug. If you were persistent, the lead now faithfully follows the contours of the throat area. Generally I have to force it back in and pound on it some more to get it to "fill out" correctly. The lead that swedges back between rod and rifling is very accurate for bore diameter and rifling height measurement as it has flowed under great pressure to fill that zone, yet it gets no further upset action during removal as all the action is past it now.

When you are done, you have a forced lead equivalent of a cerrosafe casting. Yes, you can tap an OS slug in from the chamber end with a soft brass rod to back check your throat size (and I do) but the pound case/slug is the only way to get an accurate length relationship of the chamber changeover points to an expanded case. The fired case was expanded to fit the chamber at firing and the lead pounding action re-expanded it to be just a bare slip fit again.

One pound slug and several "tapped in" OS bullets will tell you all you need to know about your throat area for fitting a new bullet.

Oldfeller

[lar45]

My 17yo Son got his Mom one of the Stevens in 7-08 for her birthday. He's been saveing some money and is going to get a Stevens in 25-06 this week. I think they look pretty good. We saw some in the Farm supply store for $259.99

[David R]

Thank you Oldfeller!

[carpetman]

lar45---son getting a 25-06. What will a 25-06 possibly do that a .270 doesnt do better?

[Jetwrench]

Carpetman,
Shoot 25 cal bullets. HAR, HAR, HAR.
Sorry, just could not stop myself.
Jetwrench

[Oldfeller]

Caliber selection amongst us generally runs along the lines of "I ain't got one and I aways wanted to try one out".

If you religiously follow the "it can't do any thing XX can't do" thread, you will have us all shooting .308's and 30-06's because of BETTER BULLET SELECTIONS that are available in 30 caliber. But then there are ballistics to consider, too.

Notice I picked my 7mm bore size because it out-ballistics a .308 at same bullet weights? We pick our guns for whatever excuse we want to use to justify a gut level choice. I picked the gun itself because it is small and nifty and cheap.

Oldfeller