25 stevens rimfire

[SSGOldfart]

any body now where I can get a few of these old rimfire rounds

[jon skorepa]

shootable rounds can be made fron 22 hornet cartridges with 22 rf primed case or 22blank as primer. check out single shot exchange magazine for detailed procedure. i dont recall the issue but col.bret boyd the publisher will probably help you. always load these old ones very slowly up to black powder pressure. jon

[Bent Ramrod]

You're pretty much stuck with dealers in antique ammunition and the occasional gun show find. The freshest ammunition would be the "Canuck" brand from CIL, which was discontinued in the late '70's.

[Bret4207]

The 25 Stevens is one of those rounds that shouldn't have died. All these yahoos bring out 17's and 5mms at a gazillion feet per second and offering no real use. Now the 25, there's a small game cartridge! The nest closest thing is a down loaded 25/20 or a 22WRF and neither one is quite right. Too bad.

[C A Plater]

If you're going to find any recent manufactured it most likely would come from south of the border. Aquila used to make it and it is the parent case for the 5mm Remington but it has been quite a while since I'd heard of any being available. Bret is right it should never have died.

[excess650]

Unlike most rimfires that used heeled boolits, the .25 Stevens used an "inside lubricated" (conventional) boolit. The lube was ON the boolit inside the case.

I haven't looked for ammo, and I know what I have seen was $$.

The firing pin is situated such that a liner can be put in a barrel and extractor modified to shoot 22rf. OTOH, the 32rf is virtually worthless without modifying the block.

I HAD are Remington Rolllingblock #1 sporting rifle that had been rebored/rechambered from 22 to .25-10. That was Remington's designation of the .25 Stevens. Yes, it WAS the full sized, octagon topped, rebated sided sporting action.

[jon skorepa]

another rout could be using 25 rf pin shooting rounds i measured some real close to 25 rf but real short and i dont know the loads used be real careful

[Bent Ramrod]

I tried the .28 stud driver blanks with a .25 cal round ball and a little bit of lube. Accuracy was bad to worse. This was in a Stevens Buckhorn bolt action in .25 Stevens, not a Favorite or other light single shot. This does not constitute a recommendation to try this on my part. There are several power levels of these blanks, I understand. I may have been lucky.

I did make a die once to squish .22 Hornet bases down so that the shells could fit a .25 RF chamber after trimming and minor rim thinning. Switching Low Wall breechblocks from rim- to centerfire resulted in a reloadable .25 caliber using a sized down Ideal 257420. Case life was short, but longer than the rimfire, at least.

I do wish they'd revive the .25 Stevens, but I probably couldn't afford newly manufactured ammo, and they'd probably never sell enough to amortise the equipment. I just wish I had bought a couple cartons when they were available at the "outrageous" price of $4.75 for a box of 50!

[Bret4207]

I know where there's a gorgeous Stevens Marksman in 25RF. Tight as a drum and the barrel is perfect. I had a deal all worked with the store owners son, right up till Dad suddenly decided he wanted the gun.

[wills]

http://www.rtgammo.com/obsolamm.html

[Bret4207]

When I left the gun shop to go into the chainsaw biz I left 5 or 6 boxes of that Canuck 25 RF ammo, 20 boxes of CIL 222 Mag brass, 33 Winchester factory, 8mm Lebel, some 32 RF stuff, 41 Swiss, a whole great big mess of surplus '06 and 45ACP. All gone to the winds now thanks to my evil stepfather.

[SSGOldfart]

I have a nice clean original box of 50 sitting in front of me. 25 Stevens Rim Fire
They have a diamond shape head stamp. the bullet looks copper plated with a flat nose.
Western brand (yellow, blue, red card board box)
65 grain Lubaloy bullet non-corrosive priming - smokeless powder

If interested send me a PM.

PM inbound
thanks again another PM on the way.

[NoZombies]

If you're going to find any recent manufactured it most likely would come from south of the border. Aquila used to make it and it is the parent case for the 5mm Remington but it has been quite a while since I'd heard of any being available. Bret is right it should never have died.

As far as I know, the Mexicans and Brazilians have never made the .25 RF, at least not that was available here in the US.

The 5mm Remington wasn't based on the 25 RF case, so that's a no-go as well. I've heard that Remington did experiment with the .267 rimfire, which was indeed based on the .25 rf, but it was never produced in any quantity.

[Chev. William]

As far as I know, the Mexicans and Brazilians have never made the .25 RF, at least not that was available here in the US.

The 5mm Remington wasn't based on the 25 RF case, so that's a no-go as well. I've heard that Remington did experiment with the .267 rimfire, which was indeed based on the .25 rf, but it was never produced in any quantity.

A Grade 3 (Green tipped) .27 Caliber Powder Tool Load measures .268" body diameter and .326" rim diameter with approximately .050" rim thickness. The sample I have is head stamped with an "O" encircling an "H", which I believe indicates Olin/Winchester manufacture, and was from a 'RamSet' ten load plastic strip.

A Grade 3 (Green tipped) .25 Caliber Powder Tool Load measures .246" body diameter and .295" rim diameter with approximately .050" rim thickness. The Sample I have is head stamped with an "O" encircling an "H", which, as previously stated, I believe to indicate Olin/Winchester manufacture.

The Lee Carbide .25ACP resizing die in conjunction with an RCBS "Primer Pocket Swageing Tool" and a 3/16" 'Fender Washer' can be used to resize .22 Hornet all the way down to the Rim, this just leaves a 'roll' of displaced brass formed to fillet radius between the body and the rim that needs to be machined off. The rim diameter may need to be trimmed also for some chamber cuts. of course the case length will need to be trimmed to match the .25 Stevens length of 1.124", or 1.125" for measuring convenience. Bullets are the same size as .25ACP and the original was between 63gr and 68gr inside lubed. The original loads were stated as between 1000fps and 1100fps, just subsonic speed. There are reports that some later loadings were up around 1200fps. The 25 Stevens was considered target accurate out to about 200 yards with a 'high trajectory', and a much better 'Pot Meat' caliber than the .22 LR rounds.

Best regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

September 10, 2013 update on my Project Progress:
The Stevens Favorite actions and all my barrels are with the Gunsmith for Inspection and Fitting.

I have Ordered and received a total of 300 each .22 Hornet cases to use in forming Extended length .25ACP, and .25 Stevens cases (CF not RF). 100 ea were ordered as 'Remington' Empty Brass but when received, were found to be marked "Hornady .22 Hornet", the remaining 200 each are of the same manufacturer as my original experimental lot, PPU.

There are ordered, and paid for, 83 each additional .32LC Empty Brass cases to add to my current remaining 17 cases, which have been sized and trimmed to between .912" and .914 inch length.

[Chev. William]

Today I made some progress on the Development of alternatives for the .25 Stevens RF alternative cartridges.

I built up the first complete .25 Stevens RF replacement/substitute Rim Fire cartridge of this deisgn.

It is made up of a roughly 1 inch piece of 9/32 diameter .014 wall Brass Tubing drawn down to .275 outside diameter in a .25ACP Carbide sizing die, A .25 Caliber Grade 3, Green Tipped Powder Tool Load, and a 50gr FMJRN Magtech Bullet.
The .25 Cal Load's rim fits into a .25ACP shell holder.
The Tubing after drawing is slightly smaller than the Load body, and can be pressed over it by using a fender washer on top of the piece tubing under the sizing die in a reloading press. The tubing will stop on the shell holder, leaving a small space between the rim and the bottom of the tubing. the blank is retained by about the same force as a primer cup in a Center fire round.
then the top of the tubing is belled with an expander die, and finally the bullet is seated and the bell ironed out in a seater/crimper die.

This first 'prototype' was not 'glued' together, it is just held together by the grip of the tubing. I then took it to my Gunsmith Shop and we tried it in one of my .25 Stevens barrels, It did chamber and appears to have sufficient rim exposure to allow firing.

Nine more of the same design,but using lacquer between 'blank' and tubing wall as an additional securing method, are partially assembled tonight. I left them open to allow the 'glue' to dry thoroughly before adding the bullet.
Upon completion these will join the other one with my Gunsmith for test purposes.

Progress on the Center Fire alternative for the .25 Stevens:

Ten of the formed and machined .250ALS Cartridges were primed with CCI#450 (SRM), filled with 2.5gr of (Alliant) BULLSEYE, and topped with a 50gr FMJRN (Magtech) bullet. The assembled length is 1.415" to 1.410" for these. (Case Length is 1.125")
This load is calculated to develop approximately 10,700psi Maximum Average Pressure and should result in a Muzzle Velocity of about 1450fps out of a 21.75" barrel. The estimated Muzzle Exit Pressure is 865psi. these load will be taken to my Gunsmith for use in testing the rebuilt Stevens Favorite actions.The Other Design is the CF replacement for the .25 Stevens.

Why were these chosen to be used as test rounds, both the RF and the CF? They are a reasonable match for the action and existing chamber. They are estimated to be below the SAMMI/CIP pressure limits for the Caliber and Cartridge as far as I have been able to ascertain. these are not 'Proof loads' but are intended for live function testing of the completed firearm(s). When I obtain suitable Cast Lead Bullets I will assemble additional rounds for the gunsmith to use for testing the firearms.

I feel this is good news on this date.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Saturday evening, I tried out finding how much fffg Black Powder (BP) my ".250ALS" CF substitute for the .25Stevens RF and determined that, at case length of 1.125", it will hold about 9.0 grains of the GOEX fffg BP loose and without any compression, with a little room to start the bullet into the case.

From reports, I believe the original .25 Stevens Long RF was charged with between 10 and 11 grains of BP and used an inside lubed 67 grain Lead bullet and were reported to get 1180fps. This would seem to indicate that my case could possibly hold 10 grains if compressed. That would be interesting to chronograph if i get some loaded with 65 to 67 grain bullets.

I do not know if it would be possible to get 11 grains into the CF case, compressed, as the base takes away possible volume that was available for powder in the RF case.

I did load 5 cases with the 9.0gr charge, and topped with a 50gr FMJRN Magtech bullet for future use when I get my rifle back from the Gunsmith.

On a sadder note: Hollywood Engineering suffered a fire this weekend, reported as a result of an electrical problem, and the 80 year old owner was burned, and transported to the Hospital for treatment. The LAFD report also stated that the Shop and his home were 'Red Tagged' and the three adults and two dogs were relocated for the time being. fire was reported about 6:30AM and reported out by 11:30AM. They make reloading presses and dies and load blanks, etc. for the movie industry.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Bent Ramrod]

That's bad news about Hollywood Engineering. They used to exhibit and sell parts and dies at the Costa Mesa Gun Show. Seemed like a nice couple.

[Chev. William]

I'm thinking of doing a 'drive By check' tomorrow morning on my way to the VA Outpatient Center for a Dr. Appointment. If it happens, I will report my observations tomorrow evening.
Best Regards,
Chev William

I did a "Drive by Check" of the Hollywood Engineering shop and it looks 'not good'. The shop roof is gone, there is smoke staining starting about 8 feet up the wall of the Truck door and up from there. The door was not visible, just the opening.

With the roof gone, the machinery may or may not have been damaged by the Fire, smoke, or water used to suppress and extinguish the fire, which was reported by the LAFD Arson Investigation as of Electrical origin.

I did not see any smoke staining above where the personnel door is located so I do not believe there would be any or at least little fire or smoke damage to the house.

The rest of the things in the yard did not appear to have been involved.

I did not get out of my vehicle for these observations.

I will try to contact the family later in the month to find out how the owner is doing.

This does Not Look Good for their continued Business activity nor for their immediate income stream.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Back on the .25 Stevens items:
On a Whim, I loaded some of my remaining finished .250ALS cases with 9.0 grains of fffg Black Powder (BP) and 50gr bullets, 5 with FMJRN and 2 with Cast Lead "Ranch Dog" RFN sample bullets I received from "Carolina Cast Bullets" for trials. As this load is less BP than reported for original .25 Stevens RF loads, I believe that even with the lighter bullets (50gr versus 67gr) the Muzzle velocity will be slightly lower than the reported velocity of the RF cartridge. I do not think that this will be a problem, as the Smokeless Powder loads I have calculated indicate easy match to the RF performance and room for some higher velocity loadings within pressure limits. I also have learned that as the case length increases, the 'optimum' powder burn rate to achieve 'maximum Velocity at a given maximum pressure limit changes to a slower range.

I also loaded 10 .25ACP cases with 4.0 grains of fffg Black Powder (BP) and the 50gr Cast Lead "Ranch Dog" RFN bullets, with a final COAL of 0.850" for testing when I receive my Stevens Favorite rifles back from the Gunsmith.

The .25ACP load is 'plowing new ground' because as far as I know the .25ACP has never been commercially loaded with Black Powder as it was developed for the Colt Pocket Pistol after Smokeless Powders were introduced. I am hoping that the small cartridge will give similar or better performance to the .25 Stevens short RF cartridge BP loadings.
This 'tiny' case is also sensitive to slight differences in net case volume, both from manufacturer source variations and bullet seating depth variations so powders and charges need to be carefully selected and measured to get performance within the standard pressure limits of the cartridge. This is modified by the intended use in a rifle versus commercial loadings for use in a 2 to 2-1/2 inch barrel length Blow-back system semi-automatic pistol.

Best regards,
Chev. William