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Thread: 45-110 scene in "QUIGLEY"

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    45-110 scene in "QUIGLEY"

    Well, I just saw Quigley Down Under for the 1st time, and I must say I really enjoyed it. One thing I am wondering, though, is about that part where Selleck demo's the Sharps rifle on the wooden bucket. Is that cartridge/rifle really capable of that kind of performance given the operator is on his game? Is there anyone who actually has real-life experience shooting the BPCR in 45-110 at such great distance?

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Not only is the 45-110 capable of that sort of accuracy, but many other cartridges as well.
    Yes there are several hundred shooters that shoot the 45-110 in matches with distances from a few hundred yards to 1 mile.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  3. #3
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    I remember seing a show at the tube yrs ago with a guy shooting a 45-100 to 120 (cant remember) at a white buffalo silhuette at 1000yds. The black kill zone was a 12" gong and he nailed it three times in a row after sighters.

    But standing offhand, hmmmm.

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    Here's the clip i saw back then:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRaRCCZjdTM&NR=1

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Thief View Post
    Here's the clip i saw back then:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRaRCCZjdTM&NR=1
    I believe that was Dave Gullo of Buffalo Arms shooting. I've never met him, but I sure have bought a lot of his stuff

    Chris.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    The rifles and cartridges are definately capable of the accuracy seen and discribed above.
    The failing point that was not mentioned, is being able to guess accurately, and I mean very accurately to within a few yards, the distance. At the ranges mentioned above AND the (bucket range in the movie) boolits are on a very steep down angle drop and missing the range by even a few yards would mean a miss.
    The BPCR shooters know exactly the range they are shooting and they know the exact drop of their boolits at that range.
    My 45-70 sighted at 100 yards, drops 30" at 200 yards. That bucket looked a lot further than 200 yards to me.

    Jack

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    "..... this one will shoot a might ferther".

    Anyone can find tons of logic flaws/errors in ANY fiction movie (and most so-called non-fiction documentaries for that matter!). If the writers and directors had no license to compress or cherry pick for effect, most movies would just drag badly, go flat and wouldn't be watchable.

    I don't know where the bucket at 200 yards thing comes from??? It is most assuredly much father away!!! Just do a little math with the horse running for however many seconds at 25-35 MPH.

    I've watched the movie countless times since it came out and it is still enjoyable- excellent movie and story.... if you don't start the "ya but" this and that every time an error is perceived.

    Yes, the big Sharps are quite capable of astounding long range accuracy. The weak link is usually the shooter.

    "..... you can substitute a 450 #2 British musket lead".

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    My point was, I could guess the 30" at 200 yards for my rifle.
    How much do you figure Mathew Quigley was guessing at the buckets range?
    Read between the lines.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlejack View Post
    My point was, I could guess the 30" at 200 yards for my rifle.
    How much do you figure Mathew Quigley was guessing at the buckets range?
    Read between the lines.
    OK, reading between the lines... simply get onto a free online ballistics calculator like JBM and put in the numbers. It will crank out some fairly close estimates for trajectory. And with a little playing with the calculator will give equally good estimates for rear sight adjustments out to whatever range you wish. But as with any calculator... junk in- junk out, so careful entry of parameters is critical. I've found the estimates to be very close each time I've tested it against known (actual shooting) results.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I have watched Quigley a number of times adn find it entertaining every time I watch it. I have no doubt that a Sharps 45-110 can shoot accurately to a mile. I shot a 1200 yard bulls eye match in Canada a number of years ago and managed to score a 47 6V out of a possible 50 with 10 Vs. We used the old 5V 1000 yard target where the bull was about 50 inches and the V ring was around 20 inches as I recall. I shot it with my Shiloh 45-70 Long Range Express and I did not come close to winning the match. A guy shooting a Parker Hale Volunteer rifle (1858 Enfield in 45 caliber won the match with a 49-9V. The only doubts I have is range estimation by mark 1 eye ball that Quigley did in the movie and holding a 13 pound rifle off hand and making hits at the ranges he did. The most unbelievable shot in the movie was at the guy driving away full speed in a wagon and Quiggley hitting him in the head with one shot. Now that is hard to believe especially as he was beat up pretty bad at that point.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    I was raised around cow horses and working quarter horses and know a little about what a good horse can and can not do. The rider that carried the bucket out to the hill was mounted on a fine looking quarter horse. Good quarter horses have a reputation for being able to run flat out and maintain a constant speed speed for approximately a quarter of a mile. The rider was at full gallop when he snagged the bucket and never slacked speed until the sound of the pistol shot. When the pistol fired that horse went into a stiff-legged, butt-dragging quarter horse stop so there was very little deceleration time to calculate.
    Some time ago, after researching the top speed of horses entered in sanctioned quarter horse races around the country, I ran some calculations to determine the range of the bucket shot. I do not remember the exact speed of the top racers or the number or seconds that the bucket carrier ran but, if I remember correctly, it figured out to approximately 820 yards to where the bucket was placed. So theoretically, Quigly could have have known the range to within a few yards.
    I know that a good BPC rifle is accurate enough to make the shot but I would imagine that it would require a superb athlete with extraordinary hand-eye coordination to acquire a stable sight picture and make that shot from an offhand firing position. But then that's what heroes and movie characters are. Right?
    Respectfully,
    Tom Myers
    Precision Shooting Software


  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickSS View Post
    I have watched Quigley a number of times adn find it entertaining every time I watch it. I have no doubt that a Sharps 45-110 can shoot accurately to a mile. I shot a 1200 yard bulls eye match in Canada a number of years ago and managed to score a 47 6V out of a possible 50 with 10 Vs. We used the old 5V 1000 yard target where the bull was about 50 inches and the V ring was around 20 inches as I recall. I shot it with my Shiloh 45-70 Long Range Express and I did not come close to winning the match. A guy shooting a Parker Hale Volunteer rifle (1858 Enfield in 45 caliber won the match with a 49-9V. The only doubts I have is range estimation by mark 1 eye ball that Quigley did in the movie and holding a 13 pound rifle off hand and making hits at the ranges he did. The most unbelievable shot in the movie was at the guy driving away full speed in a wagon and Quiggley hitting him in the head with one shot. Now that is hard to believe especially as he was beat up pretty bad at that point.
    You got that right about the quartering away wagon driver Range estimation plus moving target plus off hand.... but sure makes for a good movie!

    littlejack,

    Don't know about your gun and load in the 45-70 as to rear sight MOA increase out to distance.

    Here's my C Sharps 45-110 with long staff installed and the PP round I shoot.
    Barrel is 32" standard heavy. Sight radius is exactly 36". PP bullet is tapered- swaged flat base, BC. is approx .320. Bullet weight is 520 gr. MV for load is 1270 fps. Center of front sight is 1" above center of bore.

    For the above gun and load using the JBM calc. with my gun zeroed at 100 yds. I need about 28 MOA more rear sight height increase to zero at 300. I need about 135 MOA more rear sight height increase to zero at 900 yds. I don't think the movie specified the exact bucket distance so 900 is as good as any.

    It's been 15 or so years since I shot out to really long ranges. Played around shooting the long range Buff gong at Raton one calm afternoon. Had no trouble hitting it everytime once I got the windage doped. IIRC the JBM numbers I've run since are right on the money as used for that shooting. But, hitting that Buffalo gong casual shooting is completely different from bullseye competitive shooting. Apples & oranges BTW the gun as it is set up and from a rest is capable of 5 shot 3" groups at 300 yds. with the best being about 2.6" at 300 yds.
    Last edited by 405; 12-23-2011 at 10:38 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master RMulhern's Avatar
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    Those shots would have been much more believeable....if he had been prone or sitting!
    "The South died with Stonewall Jackson!"

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    405:
    I guess i'm missing your point. I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I have never shot with a bpcr at the distances mentioned. I haven't shot at those distances with any of my smokeless high power rifles.
    I AM very impressed with the shooters that do shoot at those distances and hit there mark.
    What I AM saying, is that if one uses the distance that Tom mentioned (820) yards and/or the distance that you mentioned (900) yards, a person better be able to guesstimate either range very close, without the use of a BC.
    We all know that this situation in the movie, did not really take place. I do not believe that there are but a handful of shooters in the world that can judge distance that far, that accurately with any consistancy, let alone the first try at that distance.
    Where in the world did you get the idea to use the balistic calculators. We were discussing the failing point of the shooters ability of guessing the range. I must have missed the part where Quigley peeked at his BC.
    Yes, the rifle and cartridge will do the job. But, without a rangefinder I believe the bucket would be safe.
    I love verbal jousting.
    Good shooting to you all.
    Jack

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    The one really big fault in the movie that bugs me every time is:

    Towards the end where he shoots two fellas at the porch with one shot, the bang comes after the hit.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Thief View Post
    The one really big fault in the movie that bugs me every time is:

    Towards the end where he shoots two fellas at the porch with one shot, the bang comes after the hit.
    Bullet got there before the sound did.........

    SS
    NRA Life Member Since 1981



    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

    II Corinthians 4:8-9. We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted but not forsaken, struck down, but not destroyed."

    Psalms 25:2 O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy

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    Dont forget the Story ! Mathew had been using this Rifle a long time in Wyoming ! Made is own reloads etc. We need a 2nd Quigly Move !!
    " I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it. " Matthew Quigley

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    That movie is also capable of taking all the money out of your pocket for a long time! ask me how I know!
    Frank G.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlejack View Post
    405:
    I guess i'm missing your point. I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I have never shot with a bpcr at the distances mentioned. I haven't shot at those distances with any of my smokeless high power rifles.
    I AM very impressed with the shooters that do shoot at those distances and hit there mark.
    What I AM saying, is that if one uses the distance that Tom mentioned (820) yards and/or the distance that you mentioned (900) yards, a person better be able to guesstimate either range very close, without the use of a BC.
    We all know that this situation in the movie, did not really take place. I do not believe that there are but a handful of shooters in the world that can judge distance that far, that accurately with any consistancy, let alone the first try at that distance.
    Where in the world did you get the idea to use the balistic calculators. We were discussing the failing point of the shooters ability of guessing the range. I must have missed the part where Quigley peeked at his BC.
    Yes, the rifle and cartridge will do the job. But, without a rangefinder I believe the bucket would be safe.
    I love verbal jousting.
    Good shooting to you all.
    Jack
    Jack,
    "My 45-70 sighted at 100 yards, drops 30" at 200 yards. That bucket looked a lot further than 200 yards to me."

    YOU commented about bullet drop and how much your sights would have to be adjusted to hit the bucket in the movie..... the ballistic calculator will do that if you put the info for your gun and load in the calculator.

    Actually, we're in complete aggreement. The shooting as depicted in the movie is likely beyond human ability. The errors would be huge. While pushing the limits, the equipment depicted in the movie may have the capability (BTW, Shiloh built the Sharps rifles for the movie). But fictional stories are not made to show the cut and dried ability of a piece of equipment. Good movies are stories about human interactions- the yin-yan, good vs evil woven in an entertaining fashion sometimes with a romantic twist thrown in.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
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