SO, I want to build a Rifle

[greywuuf]

As far as Caliber, hmmm
More is better right ? well ok I am not sure, I was thinking I might go 50 thinking I could PP projectiles from other 50 centerfires i have, but if a 50 ML is like the small 50 ( .500 - .502) then that wont work. and if it wont share projectiles with anything else I might as well go big right ?
Any suggestions on caliber ?

I am likely not going to hunt with it, but if I do end up liking that much, it will most likely be Moose ( big 1000 pound plus ones ) that I hunt with it, so I am guessing something largish is going to be the final answer. 54 58 ? 62 ?

[docone31]

Sounds like you are .54 candidate.
A little larger then a .50.
Waaaay back when, they were .52 caliber. They got "freshed" out to .54 or larger. Molds were made to fit the rifle.
Good luck.

[greywuuf]

Well we all know that the name of the caliber and what the bores and or grooves measured were sometimes two different things. So what did an original "50" measure in at ( I mean generally) and the 52/54 was that a bore or a groove and what about now ? what bore is a 50 and also a 54 ? are you saying I can patch a 50 projectile ( .512) up to fit a 54 ?

Man this is just twisting my brain.

I have also been thinking maybe instead of spending the money on a rifle as a first go.. I might Do a big hawken horse pistol, this would at least be correct as a Flinter

here is one I think is kinda pretty http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego...INT-PARTS-LIST

Less money to get into, still would be used to learn to shoot a ML and almost all of the issues of building a full length Hawken

[docone31]

Well, a .50 is a .490, or .495 ball, with ticking. A .54 is corresponding in ratio.
A .52, was what they called a .50. It was a good .52 though. When they "freshed" the barrel, they reamed them out, then recut rifleing. I had a chance to see an original rifleing machine. The family still had it. They would have given it to me, but I was on my motorcycle. There was little if any interest back then.
When the bore got shot out, they recut the rifleing. Seems simple enough.
Smokepoling ain't like carrying a pocket full of cartridges and slamming the bolt home. It in itself is an art form.
Seems, folks either hang them over a mantle, or take them out. They are either hands on, or
"what is that on your mantle?"
Enjoy the ride. It lasts a lifetime.

[Dean D.]

Call Track on those parts, to make sure there in stock, or you could be waiting for awhile ...

EXTREMELY good advice. Ask me how I know

[pulaski]

Greywuuf .
If the hooked breech is your route , there is an easier way to align the breech and hook .
You'll need a jig to set this up . Sweat weld the hook and breech together and fit as if it were a one piece tang and breech .
You will have to unsweat these later , but not all that difficult .
This is not the easiest build to start with (as stated by others ) but I would give it a go .
Steve

[Swede44mag]

Find a good DVD on building a Black Powder Rifle I bought a couple online.
It will keep you from making some mistakes.

Good luck

[greywuuf]

SO was "Bubba" around in the mid 1800's?
I am thinking "sporterized" full stock flinter....... Cut down to a half stock

[greywuuf]

one more thing, lock quality seems to be one of the magor factors in ones enjoyment of a flinter .....
how are the large Silers? would that be a quality piece to start with. Anything anyone else would prefer ?

[KCSO]

I built my first Hawken in 1973 and made just about every mistake I could make on it, but I learned from expirience. I built my first muzzleloader in 1960 from the steering rod of a 1940 Ford and a chunk of walnut wood from the woodpile. Since them I have built a good number of guns and worked on and rebuilt a good many more. IF you want to start with a Hawken first read Bairds books so you know what they should look like and get a feel for the form and function. If you can still find any of the book of buckskinning seriese they have good articles
for the first time builder. I have to go along with Waksupi on this one as getting a hawken RIGHT is a tough job. It's kinda like you posted I want to build a car, where do I start?

Now if I were in your shoes I would be looking at a 90% inletted kit from Track or Pecatonica or such. This is going to put you in it at about $500 for the parts and I would also get the blueprints with the kit. Then when you have the kit all together in the white you can start worrying about sanding staiining and metal finish. Just keep asking as you go along.

As I write I have a barrel in the browning cabinet and I have a flint pistol on the bench under the knife.

[greywuuf]

I am looking at a 90% kit from track, and it is more like $6-700 and i still would not be getting what I want.
I dont intend to build an action on my anvil from sheets of wrought iron, nor do I plan on bulding a rifling table and turning out my own barrel, and I am not going to wax cast or hammer out all of the fittings. I am looking more at taking a group of demonstrated good quality parts and then hand fitting them into a workable representation of a rifle.

I am pretty sure Bubba is going to hit the history channel, because I AM going to have a half stock flinter in Hawken Style. I am just trying to decide wheather to retro fit a caplock to a flint or retrofit a half stock to a full stock flinter.

thinking seriously about sporterizing a 42" full stock .. though it seems a shame to waste that much hardwood this day in age.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Yes, the Siler is a good lock, not sure if it goes with a Hawkin, I'm no expert, call Jim Chambers at the website in my first post with the pictures, the one of the "mouse gun"! he makes some of the best locks ...

[waksupi]

Siler is good, but no way will it fit the lock inlet for a pre-inlet Hawken.

[StrawHat]

Here is a Hawken I built years ago, possibly in the 70s. Lots wrong with it and easily seen if you know what to look for.



The wrist is the wrong geometry, the buttplate is the same. The triggerguard is poorly let because of the wrist geometry. Heck, the more I look, the more I see.

Here is the Harpers Ferry. When I got it, the wrist was broken so I carved a new stock for it and refinished the parts.



As for caliber, a lot will depend on the rifling twist. If you get a barrel with a slow twist, you will be shooting round balls and the bigger the better. I like 54, 58 and 62 caliber rifled roundball guns. The smaller balls lack the weight I like for penetration.

[greywuuf]

Thank you all for the info. Enough links and facts were given to point me. towards my continued learning.
Later this week or maybe next week when parts begin arriving I will post a new thread with my project. I would tell you here what I had decided to do, but I don't know yet, some of it will depend on the in stock situation when I push the add to cart button.

Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk

[odis]

You might consider the Lehman flint from TOW for a first build, I did the Bivins 1770 for my first build far easier than a hawken and it took me a year to do and it does'nt look all that good but it shoots very good. The Siler is not a correct lock for a Hawken.

[excess650]

I see that you're pretty intent upon the Hawken style, but there are some other things to consider. The crescent buttplate isn't very shoulder friendly and combined with a large bore wouldn't be much fun. With a halfstock you have the under ribs to deal with, and the Hawkens have the long tangs to reinforce the wrist. The barrels are usually pretty heavy because of being straight rather than tapered or swamped.

Most MLer barrels are cut with twist for shooting patched round balls. 1-48" for 50 or 58 cal was a compromise twist that would shoot PRBs or conicals, but conicals work probably should have even faster twist. Large game can be taken with PRBs, but larger game really should have larger calibers. I have .45, .50, .58 and .62. I've shot a .69cal Jaeger and the guy who owns it loves it. IMO, .45 is pretty light for all but small deer. I would want at least my .58 for ventilating a moose with a PRB.

My first MLer was a CVA Mountain Rifle kit gun when I was a teenager. It was OK and I really preferred it to the TC Hawkens. I've since had a variety of MLers, and handled many contemporary and original. My opinion is that the early flinters had the best architecture. That is to say not much drop in the stock, wide, almost flat buttplates, and longish barrels that were "swamped" to lessen their weight. This combination makes for a lightweight rifle that minimizes recoil for large calibers and points and carries like a dream. Early Lancaster, early Virginia, Christian Springs, etc are of this variety. If you don't want a longrifle (37"+ barrel) you might want to consider its predecessor, the Jaeger. TOW or Petaconica will generally list these with 31" swamped barrels in up to 62cal. The tapered and flared octagon to round barrels offer another option in building an early style rifle.

You need to be aware that not all stock patterns will have lock panels large enough to accept locks like Chamber's round face English or Virginia, or the Jaeger. Too, smaller locks will look out of place on largish stocks.

I think $$ spent for a Petaconica kit or TOW kit will give you your best chance of building a good serviceable rifle since they supply the parts for each style. If you were to handle an early Lancaster, Transitional (Christian Springs) or Jaeger I think you would be enlightened as to what a flinter should be.