Pewter pictures and hallmarks...

[shootzemm58]

Somewhere in the last 36 pages of posts i read about using a propane torch to melt a tip of an item to prove its pewter. So being new around here and looking for a cheap way to harden lead and such,(like everybody else), when its not hallmarked or identified in some way, as in antique/collectable sources, if its greyish, heavy for its size, (not including being weighted), having a bluish tint, what other characteristics can be used to identify with some certainty?

[Twmaster]

Bends easily, does not 'spring' back. For example, it it's round and you bend it's mouth it will stay bent not try and return to shape. Edges will be the same way.

[NewbieDave007]

Somewhere in the last 36 pages of posts i read about using a propane torch to melt a tip of an item to prove its pewter. So being new around here and looking for a cheap way to harden lead and such,(like everybody else), when its not hallmarked or identified in some way, as in antique/collectable sources, if its greyish, heavy for its size, (not including being weighted), having a bluish tint, what other characteristics can be used to identify with some certainty?

Pewter is for full out and not to harden. It does very little to harden.

[Twmaster]

Pewter is for full out and not to harden. It does very little to harden.

Not exactly true.

When used 1:10 with lead it will give you a hardness of 12 or so. Some recipes in the Lyman book call for 10:1.

Now that we have access to Antimonial lead it's much cheaper to get hardness with alloys.

[jsizemore]

Somewhere in the last 36 pages of posts i read about using a propane torch to melt a tip of an item to prove its pewter. So being new around here and looking for a cheap way to harden lead and such,(like everybody else), when its not hallmarked or identified in some way, as in antique/collectable sources, if its greyish, heavy for its size, (not including being weighted), having a bluish tint, what other characteristics can be used to identify with some certainty?

We've recently had a number of folks use a torch (propane?) applied to the edge of an item to check if it's pewter. I don't know how you do that with a flame that's 2000-3600degF. On the list of ways to determine whether something is pewter, a propane torch wouldn't be on there. Heat applied to a container and using a thermometer to find that it melts @ 450degF confirms that it's pewter or solder.

[Sekatoa]

The torch works to see how quickly a questionable piece melts or softens, verses cast aluminum or stainless steel. You only use it enough to burn through it, or scorch it if it isn't pewter. I had one mug that sure looked like pewter, but want soft enough to bend, and wasn't magnetic. Still not sure what it is, I'd guess some sort of stainless alloy. But a torch had no effect except to release the handle that was soldered on.

Occasionally at the flea market a see bowls or vases with a small scotch Mark on the base or under side, from someone testing it to see if was pewter.

[RogerDat]

I'm one that tests unmarked items with a propane torch. High tin tends to melt as soon as I brush the blue tip on it, lead has to heat up a bit first. Junk won't melt or flow. I would not however consider this a test for "pewter" it is a test for having tin content. If it's small such as a small picture frame it goes with my roll solder scrap based on torch test, if it was big enough piece I might melt on it's own using a thermometer to get a better idea of it's tin content and sort the resulting muffin or ingot for gunning at scrap yard later if it melted like it was pewter or high tin.

It's simple, I can tell it has some tin with the torch, I don't usually need my tin % to be exact. Just so it is enough to help fill out, if bad fill out then I can add more. Once I have enough scrap solder and other variable tin content items I turn them into small ingots and get one or two gunned at the scrap yard and label them all. But I like my pewter stash to be known (hallmarked/stamped) pewter for those times I might want to be a bit more precise or for possible swapping or selling. Don't think it's right to represent something as "pewter" if it's not known to be pewter. If I want a more exact tin content being able to calculate known pewter as 90% tin is useful.

[ncbearman]

My train of thought anymore is if it is not hallmarked or stamped pewter I let it lay and move on. Then all I am left guessing is weight in order to figure price per pound.

[RogerDat]

My train of thought anymore is if it is not hallmarked or stamped pewter I let it lay and move on. Then all I am left guessing is weight in order to figure price per pound.

I would call that good advice. Don't guess if you are not willing to kiss that amount of money good-bye as wasted. There are an occasional item that is both cheap enough and has enough weight that I'm willing to make an educated gamble on purchasing based on appearance and physical characteristics. I have been wrong a few times, have gotten some good deals sometimes.

Try to learn what I can about what is different about this piece so I don't make the same mistake again. But yes I sometimes pay for my learning experience. Still $1 shot at a win vs. $1 shot that turns out to be a loss is survivable and helps me to refine my ability to make better choices next time. Those picture frames with words cast into them mentioned awhile ago are a good example, no markings so I passed on them at $1.95 but picked one up at $0.95 elsewhere. First one was priced outside of my risk window for the weight. I now know the weight and what made me think it was a tin alloy. I'm getting an edu-ma-cation!

In my life I have made half the number of mistakes required to make me at least as educated as Einstein, I'm sure I'll get there eventually if I keep working at it.

[ncbearman]

I would call that good advice. Don't guess if you are not willing to kiss that amount of money good-bye as wasted. There are an occasional item that is both cheap enough and has enough weight that I'm willing to make an educated gamble on purchasing based on appearance and physical characteristics. I have been wrong a few times, have gotten some good deals sometimes.

Try to learn what I can about what is different about this piece so I don't make the same mistake again. But yes I sometimes pay for my learning experience. Still $1 shot at a win vs. $1 shot that turns out to be a loss is survivable and helps me to refine my ability to make better choices next time. Those picture frames with words cast into them mentioned awhile ago are a good example, no markings so I passed on them at $1.95 but picked one up at $0.95 elsewhere. First one was priced outside of my risk window for the weight. I now know the weight and what made me think it was a tin alloy. I'm getting an edu-ma-cation!

In my life I have made half the number of mistakes required to make me at least as educated as Einstein, I'm sure I'll get there eventually if I keep working at it.

Good point. Something that is not expensive is worth the gamble. I mainly try to find larger pieces or sets and doing that its important to be sure. I have bought sets that have cost $30-$50 and got 8 to 12 pounds of pewter from them. I'm happy if I get the average to $4 per pound. Less is good but I'm happy with $4.

[RogerDat]

I think the largest piece I have seen in a year is a water pitcher, at $12. There was some good sized EPBM plates and such at the scrap yard but by the time I got to where I could look up what EPBM was and get back it was it was gone. A nice score missed... at least by ME.

In a way I think finding the little thing here and there works for me. Couple of bucks for a candle stick here and there adds up without having to make a more major purchase of $30 or more. Still if I found 10# hallmarked at $30 I would be all over that like stink on manure.... in a sun warmed plastic bag at that.

[imashooter2]

Craig's List score today. Looks like 23 pounds of good modern food service pieces, 4 pieces that appear to have 19th century European hallmarks that need more research, a few figurines and a nice heavy Pewtarex covered tureen to donate to Goodwill for a tax deduction. The seller stated this was about a third of the collection in an estate clean out. I told them to keep my number. I'm always looking for more.

There are a couple new hallmarks in the pile. I'll get pictures in the next couple days.

[imashooter2]

Pictures as promised... First, the haul:


Next a 5 inch pitcher at 12.5 ounces.


And a 6 inch Norwegian vase. I've had this hallmark before, but the picture was very blurry.


And last another ho hum glass bottom mug, same as a few dozen others, but with new hallmarks.

[Sekatoa]

I have a lot to post of stuff from the father in laws finds when I can get the chance. In the meantime heres a couple of Thrift Town finds. Two gobblets, together weight just a hare under 1lb. Pink tags were 50% off, so the were $4 total, right within the target range for value.

[imashooter2]

I always keep the Royal Selangor for my personal stash. Really nice stuff, it goes 95 - 97%. Thanks for the addition!

[konsole]

I got around to melting and testing the picture frames that arent marked. Mainly the Fetco frames, but also a few others that I wanted to test out. After melting them and pouring into ingots, I took the measurements of one ingot and calculated it out to be only 3% away from what lead would be. So I think its safer to assume that picture frames that arent marked, and have a pewter look to them, and have quite a bit of weight to them, are probably lead. The ingots I poured look very similar to a lead COWW ingot, and I'm guessing they are probably around 90-95% pure lead due to the color, texture, and how they dont sink in the middle as much as softer lead does. One of the test ingots measured out to exactly 6 cubic inches and weighed 2.325-lbs, which if it was pure lead would be 2.4-lbs (3% difference). If the 6 cubic inch bar was pewter it would only weigh 1.56-lbs (33% lighter). Of course watching your temperatures when melting pewter would weed out the lead picture frames if you have any.

[konsole]

A couple days ago I found this cool piece at a thrift store...



This picture is after I cleaned off all the caked on dust and grime. I'm waiting for the hands to finish drying because the paint on them was chipping off and I resprayed them. It was $7 and weighs 20-oz so it has about $12 worth of Tin, and on the back it says "ZINN ETAIN PUR 95%". Also the electronic mechanism for the clock had alot of battery acid corrosion all over the battery contacts, but a bath in a strong base solution removed all that and the clock now functions 100% now. It wont be seeing the melting pot, so either I'll hang it on a wall, or maybe resell it, or if someone wants to make me an offer for it

As far as I can tell its Rembrandt's "Night Watch" and there are framed pewter images on ebay that have sold for $50-100, but I havent been able to find a clock version of the image.

[ncbearman]

a bath in a strong base solution removed all that

Interesting, mind sharing that recipe? I often wondered what a good way to remove battery corrosion was. Does the bath not harm the mechanism holding the battery terminals?

[konsole]

ncbearman,

I took the mechanism apart, soaked all the parts in a purple engine degreaser heavily diluted in water at like 10:1, then rinsed it all off really really well, and then used a vacuum on reverse to blow out all the water. I find that cleaning simple electronics in water is fine most of the time as long as its fully dried out before being used. Using water and a strong base probably has its risks when cleaning electronics, but it works well for me. I think its pretty much like the acid/base reaction of the vinegar and baking soda mix. To remove battery acid you want a strong base. I think I've only ever had 1 electronic device "burn out" on me after cleaning with water and purple degreaser and that was probably because water got stuck in places that I couldnt dry out. I think water damage to simple electronics occurs most of the time when the device is running and then gets wet and it short circuits, but as long as it has no power running through it and its fully dried before turning on, the chances for damage seem small in my experience. Some things like LCD screens or hard drives I wouldnt dunk in water though. Try it to one of your kids cheap toys that has battery corrosion.

[ncbearman]

Thanks konsole. I'll remember that next time.
-Russ